Turning a Design App into a Game and Improving Retention | Gili Dangeli (Playtika) - Product Builder Podcast episode with Eyal David
Updated: 00:45:45

Turning a Design App into a Game and Improving Retention | Gili Dangeli (Playtika)

Host: · Guest: Gili Dangeli · About the host

Gili Dangeli, a product manager on Playtika's Redecor with a background in psychology and brain sciences, explains how the team turned an interior design app into a real game. The key was a level-based saga scored from one to three hearts instead of a competitive first-to-tenth ranking, which gave the team control over the player experience and lifted day-2 retention by 10 to 16 percent in testing.

In this episode

  • When the product is subjective, like design, you can't copy a win/lose mechanic: Redecor replaced a first-to-tenth ranking with one-to-three-heart scoring, gaining control over the player experience and lifting day-2 retention by 10 to 16 percent in testing.
  • Redecor players don't call it a game; they say "I come to learn design." Understanding how users frame the product to themselves shapes both how you communicate with them and what you need to explain.
  • Copying features from other games failed when they were too competitive and stressful. The audience comes to relax, so every feature is A/B tested to find the balance between engagement and pressure.
  • Long-term retention is built through something the user builds and doesn't want to lose: a personal experience that leverages loss aversion, like the farm in Solitaire or the world in June's Journey.
  • An excellent PM understands each stakeholder's work well enough to challenge it: look at the economist's spreadsheet and say "this looks hard," ask the data the right questions, and push back on estimates.
  • Communication is half the job: keep everyone updated on the why behind decisions, adapt the channel to each persona, and lobby across departments before you get to management.

Episode Description

Gili Dangeli studied psychology and brain sciences, worked in marketing research and consulting and in digital marketing, and got into product management through Playtika's product management academy. Today she is a product manager on Redecor, an interior design game played mostly by women who don't see themselves as gamers. In this episode she describes how focus groups and data exposed two problems: content that disappeared after 48 hours, and a first-to-tenth ranking that made the experience impossible to control and drove frustration and churn. The fix was a saga inspired by Solitaire and June's Journey, with hearts instead of winning and losing. Gili also covers mid-term layers that didn't all work, the psychology of the players (recognition, relaxation, values-driven content), the next challenge of long-term retention and a more precise economy, and the skills that take a PM from good to excellent: deep understanding of every stakeholder, interpersonal skills, and communicating the "why".

Chapters

  1. 0:56 · From psychology and brain sciences to product
  2. 2:03 · From marketing research to Playtika's PM academy
  3. 3:53 · What Redecor is and who it's for
  4. 6:14 · Discovery with players: focus groups and playtests
  5. 10:34 · Two pains: disappearing content and no control over the experience
  6. 14:14 · The saga: inspiration from Solitaire and June's Journey
  7. 18:02 · Hearts instead of win/lose, and day-2 retention
  8. 21:16 · Mid-term layers and the copy-paste mistakes
  9. 23:17 · Player psychology: recognition and relaxation
  10. 25:06 · The next challenge: long-term retention and a precise economy
  11. 33:13 · Key skills: ownership and interpersonal skills
  12. 37:59 · Rallying stakeholders and using AI
  13. 41:37 · The tip: communicate the why and lobby early
Read the full transcript
Full transcript with speakers and timestamps

Selected quotes

“We discovered about our players that they don't really call it a game. They say "I come to learn design."”
— Gili Dangeli
“Our players don't want to lose, they want to understand how good they were.”
— Gili Dangeli
“The job is to communicate the why and know how to explain ourselves to all kinds of different people.”
— Gili Dangeli

Questions & answers

What is Redecor?

Redecor is a Playtika mobile game in the interior design space. Players design rooms, submit them to a vote, and other players rate them. Most of the audience is women, younger than the average Playtika player and with a relatively higher socio-economic status.

How did Redecor improve day-2 retention?

The team built a level-based saga inspired by Solitaire and June's Journey and replaced the competitive ranking (first to tenth place) with one-to-three-heart scoring. Every player can succeed, and the team controls the pacing of successes and failures. Day-2 retention rose by 10 to 16 percent in testing.

How did Gili Dangeli get into product management?

She studied psychology and brain sciences, worked in marketing research and consulting (focus groups and in-depth interviews) and then as a strategy consultant in digital marketing. A Playtika HR person reached out and offered her the company's product management academy, a one-month program that mainly screens for soft skills. It took three years from deciding on product to becoming a PM.

Why didn't features copied from other games work in Redecor?

Some mid-term events copied from other games were too competitive and stressful. Redecor players come mainly to relax, so the team learned along the way what works, adjusted the events calendar, and A/B tests every feature.

What is the most important skill for a product manager, according to Gili?

Ownership in the broad sense: understanding enough of what each stakeholder does (economy, UXR, data, development) to challenge them. Alongside that, interpersonal skills, because you need people you don't manage to prioritize your feature, and constantly communicating the "why" behind every decision.

People & resources mentioned

People

Companies & orgs

Tools

  • Redecor
  • Solitaire
  • June's Journey
  • Home Design
  • ChatGPT
  • Microsoft Copilot
  • Facebook
Mobile gaming Retention FTUE Discovery Focus groups Game economy Playtika Stakeholders