Transcript: Eden Naftali (Wiz): Storytelling & Gamification for Cloud Security

Eyal David: [00:00] Hi, it's Eyal. Welcome to Product Builder, the place for the most interesting product conversations. I'm the owner of UserFlowzz and, among other things, the host of this podcast, and my goal here is for us to improve our product skills together. If this is your first time here, I hope you enjoy it. And if you've already listened and found it valuable, I'd really love for you to share the podcast with a friend. So come on, let's get started!

Eden Naftali: [00:33] I was here at 5 PM. I think I'm always with an energetic crowd — that's the vibe they work in.

Eyal David: [00:41] Wow, I love that. So here with us is Eden, who's a product manager at Wiz and also a co-host of the Crying Out Cloud podcast. Also an employee at Wiz, right? Also at Wiz. So let's start with the podcast, just for a bit. Tell us a little about it.

Eden Naftali: [00:59] So, after I'd been at Wiz for a while, I was really excited. I was really excited about what I was learning, about everything happening at Wiz. But I knew it wasn't very accessible to women when it comes to Crying Out Cloud. And I think it also has to do with me living between the LA community and the Israeli community. In the LA community, I work with storytelling. And I got involved with Crying Out Cloud. It somehow felt like an interesting story to the community. And so, I went to Gaz Arzberg, who's one of the founders of Crying Out Cloud. And I said, I think we need a co-host on Crying Out Cloud. And she said, let's do it. And there was another story, with Amitai Cohen, who's one of the founders of Crying Out Cloud, and I went ahead and took the lead on Crying Out Cloud, and we came up with really imaginative ideas and put a spotlight on things. And we created content that became a kind of tool for each new episode, and we tell them to subscribe, so everyone can see the production of all these episodes.

Eyal David: [02:11] What I mean is that these guests are people in the field, right? And that's where they come from. And wasn't there also an aspect of a new episode about simplifying and making special videos on cybersecurity?

Eden Naftali: [02:28] Yes, I think even today in the community, our MO is to engage practitioners in their world. It's not going to be scary, but it's more like — how do we give you context? And how do we equip your team to handle the right things? And so, when you watch these stories each time, as a practitioner you understand more. And I think that was our MO with it. So, if you're interested in podcasting and cybersecurity,

Eyal David: [03:00] then we'll put a few links below, and we'll also discuss a few examples from there. But besides that, isn't it the case that

Eden Naftali: [03:06] you mentioned earlier, as a side note, that you're also a product manager, right? Yes, I have a real job at Wiz. I call it a real job — being a PM at Wiz,

Eyal David: [03:16] which is a really exciting part of my daily work. So, maybe let's start for anyone

Eden Naftali: [03:22] who hasn't heard about Wiz. Maybe you can tell us a little about Wiz? Okay, I'll give you the first spiel, and then I'll give you the framing I use for my parents, so they understand what I do every day. What does Wiz do? Wiz helps organizations manage their environment. So, from the beginnings, to production, to setting up the environment, we create a single platform, maybe your environment lives across many platforms, and we can connect those platforms and give people and organizations a common context, which is a game-changer, because at the end of the day, you're on a platform with all these things and environments, and you're wondering, how do I manage this? And so, Wiz comes in, and what it does is prioritize the environment. It brings singular platforms together for visibility, and we say, start here. This is how you connect your environment. And beyond that, what Wiz does — we do something we call defense. So we work with the platforms so that they first understand the environment, before they get to production. And then we do the final piece, defense, which is defending against cybersecurity threats. Okay, so basically you manage the whole cycle,

Eyal David: [04:37] seeing, and doing, and seeing, defense. Defense. Defense — 'defend and secure' is the first thing I read about.

Eden Naftali: [04:45] So what did they tell you, or what did you say, that captured it? So what I explain to them, because it's small, as I told them, protect our environment — it's on the cybersecurity defense side. This is our environment, this is our environment. And if someone gets in, whether we go on defense, or they go on the offense first, that's a defense stage. And so, what Wiz does first is go over the assets — hold on, we take you through it, we go over everything, we know what's in your garage, and then we try to clean up the mess. So what was in the cybersecurity defense? Let's take part in the defense. Are the doors locked? Are there vulnerabilities that could be exploited and cause harm? And so, the first thing we do is try to clean out your garage, and try out the tools in your garage. And then, kind of, under pressure and restless, we say, okay, your kids just came home with a bunch of mess, they came home from college, before they put it in the garage, your OCD mom is like, okay, we're going to check what's good, what isn't good, and we're going to make sure what gets into the garage is in a good state, that's our production environment, and then we add an alarm system, and we say, okay, if the alarm goes off, is it wind, is it a false alarm, or is it an attacker, and if they're attacking, what are they going for, and what are we going to do about it — and so that's kind of how I explain to them what I do.

Eyal David: [05:58] That's a great way to describe it — of course they got it. And afterwards they told you, who were the target personas you build for, right?

Eden Naftali: [06:06] Oh, they didn't say it, but you did — so that's good. But I think it's really interesting, right? Who are the personas — it's my mom in the garage who was organized, but in cloud security, we work, you know, in cloud security, we need to embed security into the organization, and in the cloud — that's actually new, and however interesting it is to work within the org, and I think that didn't change at Wiz, because it's about getting it right — there's the practitioner, and the practitioner is the one who defends, the one who does a few more things around cyber — that's the connection, and how much we care to tell the story properly, however we do it, and then we can reach every practitioner, from their world. But the next field is also — how do we bring in the big players? How do we bring in an organization that relies on Wiz to secure it really well, and make sure their organizations know how to see it? It's within their teams. They have to keep it. They have context around Wiz. And yes, how do we build the story? When the CISO sees the progress, the executives see the progress. And I think about all the stakeholders in an organization, and I think about them coming in and being able to make decisions with Wiz. And not so that it becomes some complex operation, but really, so that they can succeed in going with Wiz. And so, kind of, the family—

Eyal David: [07:32] you know, the family. Who's the managing family? Who manages the product? Because essentially, Wiz is their family, right? You want them to make more progress, please,

Eden Naftali: [07:46] right? Yes, I think that's a small point about programming the organization. But you have people who manage Wiz, and you have people who— and I think it's a soft muscle. What is it? The identities of, and shouldn't innovate, so that you could be thriving and actually have key markers of success in your program.

Eyal David: [08:22] There's also what you — I'm going to call them the working hands, let's say, right? The ones who need to implement and eventually do some stuff. Probably mostly R&D people, right, like developers. But you need to engage them as well, and they don't really have an incentive to help you, right?

Eden Naftali: [08:39] You, as the program manager, or — Right, right. So I think there are a few ways to get them on board. One of them: simplify the task for them. I think that's really key — we won't do it for them, we won't do it from here, but simplify the task there, and keep it small for them. And then one thing we did at Wiz, which is really fun, is what we did with gamification at Wiz. So we come to them with achievements they can win. Like what we did with the Vulnerability team, or the AppSec team, and they were really nicely rewarded, so they did even better. So we bring them into implementing gamification, creating achievements at Wiz that engage the practitioner. So at Wiz we have these badges you can earn, and earn, and earn. But specifically, if I do a very specific role, how do I show you and get you the winning achievements? Looks good. Let's do it, and it's worth looking at the achievements you're driving. Yes. So I drive something called achievements, which is really nice. Because Wiz does this whole thing across the customer journey, and I get to describe a lot of the direction, and you can see how we set the family as the customer's family. and mark it across the teams and organizations using Wiz, to reach the whole special journey. So, for that, I built on top of something we call a health check at Wiz, which is meant to make sure you're doing well at Wiz. The first health check. The first health check, and then, on the flip side, no one wanted to know some setting that we'd build our dashboards to reflect your research. And so, to make it comprehensive and inviting, what does that mean, to bring in some clarity? How do we phrase it? So, I built on that. And then, I built on something called a health check at Wiz, which is a guided dashboard of the Wiz health check, mapping their status, so they know about critical issues. So, what were the gaps to cover? What do they need to do to map it out? What does it look like to get it right? How do they get there? To map their state, to map what it means to get it right,

Eyal David: [10:56] and then, to map out the most important actions. Wow, that's so good. So, once we've narrowed that down, I go further toward the achievements, right?

Eden Naftali: [11:06] Toward the achievement? Yes, the achievement. I always love it when — when you know, when you look at the goal, and then everyone reaches the achievement, and it's like, wow, this looks good. It looks great, and special, with the storytelling. So, you either drive the achievement,

Eyal David: [11:20] or you don't drive the achievement — you drive the achievement, and then you're focused on giving the next steps, after they take all the data from these achievements, right? Okay, let's do something nice with this, right? Something meaningful.

Eden Naftali: [11:36] I think that's it, and I think we want to bring them toward this achievement, not their achievement in a psychological sense, but their achievement. Wiz is your partner throughout the security journey. And so we're with you at every step, every stage, every stage, every stage,

Eyal David: [11:56] it's the vendor's style. And I can tell you're really happy about it. Yes. When you get to the style, but, essentially, how did you learn the field? How did you go and build the achievement on this?

Eden Naftali: [12:12] So I can talk about it in the Wiz context, but I think it goes further back, to when I was 16, I went to work on Hillary Clinton's campaign, and — bringing it all back, some history, in case they don't remember, the Russians hacked the campaign and the Democratic National Committee. So I was there, afterwards, I went to work on Hillary Clinton's campaign, and so I saw firsthand what it's like to be on the front line of things, which is really exciting, and by 2020, when I look at it, I see how it kind of shaped me into who I am today, and then, soon after, an engineering degree — after which, all I can say is, I go to Wiz, and I worked with customers, I worked with them at night, to figure out their production, to weigh in on the field, where they were struggling, where they were struggling, where they needed help, and at Wiz today, we serve 45% of the Fortune 100, and even more, and so, when we look at their production, and especially, it's really challenging, we serve people at the board level, so how do I serve there, working well at Wiz? And so, I think the progress, more than working with the customers, is what mattered most in these challenges — driving production, and working closely with the customers — that's what really comes out great in the way PMs work at Wiz: when you're struggling with something,

Eyal David: [13:46] you take it apart, and you rally around it, and it's like, step by step by step, which is amazing in B2B, right? But also, do you think that working on the podcast also helped you to better understand, or maybe also tell, the other side's story?

Eden Naftali: [14:04] Yes, I think the podcast keeps my feet on the ground, because you're hearing what's actually happening. You're not just stuck in the product, which is, um, theoretical and, um, preventative, and you know, you're working with the companies, but like, what does it look like all the way through — and it gives you all of the different perspectives, and probably the

Eyal David: [14:30] context as well. And, um, if we go back and talk for a second about storytelling, because I'm kind of curious — was there anything else in your past that led you there? I've always been a very

Eden Naftali: [14:44] creative person, so I found myself in really cool environments. I got to build a docu-series for the head of Warner Brothers a bunch of years back, I got to be a part of, um, a lot of things — I even think in politics, like, you're telling a story, you're selling a candidate, right? And so the idea of storytelling to me feels like a very natural way, and even in cybersecurity, right? Like at Wiz, we're not selling the tale like the old tales, like to be scared and anxious — no, we're empowering you, you've got this, we're giving you the context, we're going to equip your teams to succeed. And I think that's a story that I personally buy into, but I actually think is a really effective way to do cybersecurity. And so everything we're doing, whether it's the podcast, or we're building these tools in the product, it really works. We see that it's a really positive way to improve people's

Eyal David: [15:44] cybersecurity. I guess it's both that, the positivity, but it also sounds like you're going ahead and simplifying stuff, right? If you're talking about gamification, I'm kind of eager to hear, like, a case study or some example of how it's

Eden Naftali: [16:02] actually been done. Yeah, so one thing we did in gamification that's super cool is, in all of the pillars of Wiz, you can win achievements. Um, for example, at Wiz we incentivize organizations to get to zero criticals. What does that mean? If you get to zero criticals, it means we've looked at and prioritized critical issues in your environment, and if you successfully got rid of them, you got to zero criticals. Um, we reward you, it's exciting, you're golden, you're golden, you get an achievement, you get a badge, you get swag, and it makes it very clear to your team where

Eyal David: [16:43] you're headed and what it looks like to get there. This is amazing. It actually helps you retell your story better, right, within the organization, to his peers or her peers, right? Yeah,

Eden Naftali: [16:55] absolutely. Nice, nice marketing move. Okay, um, it's funny because, like, you can think about it as

Eyal David: [17:01] marketing, but it's really also, tangibly, what it looks like to be doing an effective job. Yeah, right, that's good marketing. Yes. I'm kind of curious, before we continue, maybe you can

Eden Naftali: [17:13] tell us a bit about your everyday — maybe it'll help us get to know you better. Yeah, so I wake up, I go surfing if there are waves. Um, but no, what I get to do at Wiz, which is cool, is I get to balance the role of being a product manager and doing the podcast. Um, and being a PM at Wiz, what's really cool about it, it's like being the CEO of your own domain. And I don't say that lightly, you know, every product in Wiz could replace another product in the industry, um, and truly compete with giants. It's amazing, what the products at Wiz do individually, and then super amazing holistically, what they do. Um, and so you're definitely not a small screw in the system — it's very empowering in the day-to-day, when you're looking at running this domain. So you do everything, like the internal side of things: designing features in Figma, bringing it to UX review, working with your developers to make sure it's implemented, troubleshooting when there are bugs, building and designing BI metrics. And then on the flip side of things, externally, what does that look like? So, talking to customers and doing discovery, figuring out pricing, speaking at conferences and to analysts, building a roadmap, working and talking to the field — there's no shortage of things to do. So I'd say a large part of my day is those kinds of things, depending on where our product's at and where in its life cycle it is. And then, on the other hand, I get to work on the podcast, um, which is a different context switch — it's researching guests who are going to join, and being with my co-host, who's amazing, and talking about what's happening, and digging into the topics, and how it happens, and how to bring it to ourselves in a really simple way.

Eyal David: [19:01] It's so good, and you also get to make decisions together, right? Like with the previous guests, with the countries, and so on.

Eden Naftali: [19:07] We keep track of the feeds on Twitter, the news, everything happening. It's so good. And how long have you been doing it? Three years. So you're already in sync, right? Or actually — not fully in sync, but in sync.

Eyal David: [19:24] But three years ago — yeah, it's already 2025, that's right. But at some point, until now, you've been working a bit in coordination, right? In sync. And what's the most special thing you've noticed after connecting with all these people on the podcast, in relation to this space, sure, with all kinds of clients and special people? What does this work require — the work, the research industry in cyber?

Eden Naftali: [19:56] I think, every time there's something I need — and I won't put it this way, Wiz goes through it and nails it. And it's constantly evolving, so I'll tell you this now, and then they'll go through it a few years later. I think, also, when I looked at this three-year journey, it's big, right? And it was a bit big and just starting, and through it all, even, you deal with survival — and that's what you go through at Wiz, what Wiz goes through — it's that they're really big on surviving, like, nightmares, endless survival, it's like, we're right there, right at the core of Wiz, we're right in the depths of Wiz, I mean, in dealing with this stuff, with environments and solutions, and it was special to go through, but it's also energizing to say

Eyal David: [20:39] on the short side. I ask this because, you know, you see and talk about all kinds of things, right? But then, kind of, I think, you went and worked

Eden Naftali: [20:52] on gamification, on UX, right? Why? I think what you see is really not trivial — the world of cloud and cloud security. And, and, cloud security specifically, at the start, there's no one — it's not like everyone does security, you know, in security specifically, you need to advocate for it, you need to make the case for it — big on internationalization, on mastering the cloud, on trying to make it work well. And I think, how we did it, it started with simplifying security, right? Like, they didn't come at you with a thousand things, they'd say, ah, this is the least of it, this is what we need. Advocate for them less, and give you more context, and more of the special stuff. Okay, so what do you do now with this?

Eyal David: [21:43] How do I know how to simplify security for you, to make the case, kind of? So that's what you think about, in practice, right?

Eden Naftali: [21:50] Mm-hmm. So what are you trying now, day to day? So, some of the things, we can see, we build on them, but one of the things we're working on, which is even bigger, is — we got personalization, so that now, when you work on Wiz, especially based on who you are as a persona, you have a personalization tailored to Wiz, that works on what you need, on what you need to see — and so, that's a comprehensive personalization I'm working on now.

Eyal David: [22:19] I love that you're working on personalization, but also on gamification. But let's dig into this. How do you get inspiration for personalization, for gamification?

Eden Naftali: [22:29] I think what's key at Wiz, I'll say, first of all, about inspiration at Wiz. One thing I love about working at Wiz is, you can work with big personalization, and I'll tell you, every day, I work with big personalizations, and they're basically like, yeah, let's do it. And it's really nice to be in the personalization space, it's like, yeah, add the creative touch, and it's not just big creative, right? It's with purpose and scale, and it's around what we're trying to advance as a company. But it's like, how — if it's like Duolingo, and we're all starting to try it and repeat it, and keep up your streak.

Eyal David: [23:10] Yeah, right, it's like the first thing. Yeah, you don't have to break your streak. So, keep advancing on it — so, in personalization, are there any pitfalls, or maybe pain points? Of course everyone has pain points, but maybe you could try just one or two, that we could keep and repeat afterwards for progress?

Eden Naftali: [23:32] Yeah, I'll do it — to try to make progress, to work on our podcast, but, let's see, there are a lot of good ones here. There's one that we — I'd say, we have a lot of nice moments all the time, but I think that's like the MO of our podcast — we have nice ones on our podcast. But, you were on the podcast, this episode, Sam Curry — he's here, it's a fascinating podcast, a highlight moment on the podcast, we'll drop the links, but he was really straightforward. And so, the cyber stories were fascinating too. He hacked into a whole car system, and, like, the whole car, the car, and everyone, and — parting the environment, all the way to developing the systems — it's really impressive, or he kind of hacked into the whole car's operating system, the way the car works. I think, so, how can you tell us a bit about it, please? And he was like, no, I researched Apple. But what comes out of it is, when you see someone's mind work like that, and you think, he researched it from the attacker's side — who is he? How did it go? And it's like, he shares, and that's how he went, and that's the sport of how it happens, and then he actually works with them to report it, and it kind of leads to the start of something I think is another action on our side. If you're not into security, you're like, security, what's that? So it was a really cool episode. Another episode — Wiz does really cool research, its research operation is like magic, so I always ask, what are you working on? We did an episode talking about research — they know it, it's called Ollama, it's a tool for AI models, that packages and deploys them, and it's open source, and a lot of people are starting to use it, and then they'd run code, and work on the security side. And it's really interesting, how they received it, and how it'll play out, and I'll have you on the podcast, but I think the interesting thing is, everyone who relies on AI, because it's a widely-adopted tool, and I think, of course, when we think about what we work on at Wiz, we want you to try to understand exciting things, but we want you to understand it deeply. And there are a lot of aspects — not to be done superficially, to really try it out, I think, understanding their work, the write-ups they do, and the potential impact of what you work on, even if you don't have to worry about your own security — you're working on something, but it has the impact of your work, and so, it's worth trying

Eyal David: [25:55] all of these things that come together. It also seems like a good thing to try before doing an interview

Eden Naftali: [26:03] on a special cyber episode. Absolutely, be really prepared. And, again, so, while I'm still a person, I'll listen to them a few times, and I'll listen to them, but when you watch the podcast, it's easy, it's approachable,

Eyal David: [26:17] it's a cyber production to try out what they work on in a cyber episode. That's good, approachable. Maybe you have some more tips or thoughts on how to explain cyber to practitioners who work in a cyber episode? Right.

Eden Naftali: [26:34] I think it's a slightly advanced and exciting episode for explaining cyber. It's a bit more of a cyber episode — I have to revisit the episode. And I think it's — I think about it everywhere, it's the most interesting thing. I think you can explain cyber to everyone through the episodes. But the moments they showed me, I get really excited, and I'll say it, almost compulsively — like a little girl. I think, I don't know if it's the the impact, the question, but I said, how do I do it — whether it's politics or cybersecurity, the internet just keeps expanding, along with the threats. If you have to, keep trying, there's so much you need to try and work through your own way. But that's my breakthrough approach — trying. I say, let's try and work through them. And so, I mean, that's a breakthrough I'll make on all the personalizations.

Eyal David: [27:35] What do you think are the most important things, or the essence, of a product manager in product? One thing I really deliver,

Eden Naftali: [27:42] especially with personalizations I can go with, and I really mean them, is that it's like — it's a big environment of products, right? First of all, a technical discussion, like what you specialize in, to map out the pieces, like, at least, we work a bit with products within products, and we grow what you specialize in, and however much you specialize. So I think, a technical discussion, and asking the questions, and going through, of course, going through everything, so that you can capture all the factors of what's happening. And I think also, the bigger part is being a really special product manager, because of course, you need to communicate well with all the stakeholders, whether it's the teams, or the products, or the place you work with, that specializes in and tailors the product to the environment. Or the — customers — and also, you're very much a partner, side by side, hand in hand, and it forces you to speak the coordinated language and your coordinated place, and so, to speak in a very close, coordinated way, and I think, to say something in a very hands-on way, but also very high-level. And I think, to be an effective product manager, you can't just product-manage the next thing — you have to come out of the news and improve the environment and deliver the product effectively, or with it. Vendor. Or everyone, alright then. Yes. To try to communicate a continuous discussion. And do you always run A/B tests, or some other approach? It depends on the operation, but there's a lot of testing in the operation, and in practice we work a bit with customers who do good things. In practice we only roll it out to specific customers. I think we do a lot of testing in practice, but we also strive to reach the process and give feedback on what we do.

Eyal David: [29:28] Yeah, it shows. So, that's obviously one of the big decisions you make? Of course, you measured it at Wiz.

Eden Naftali: [29:38] Wiz — and you can see it in the new home — we're really big on releases, and it comes out that they stand quite, um, and it's really inviting, it's exciting, and it's cool that you see your things in the new home like that, and you see how new they are, but it also means you need to reach releases quite fast. And so, being able to choose that the decisions don't stay in their episode, I think that's really — and also kind of inviting. That's one that's inviting. I think, what are the other decisions? Wow, at Wiz, you work with amazing people you get to collaborate with. It's really lovely and engaging, but it also means you're inviting. Like I said, please, the involvement of the field, but you know, staying kind of simple, very much in the community. And what happens in the community, it's really good, because you stay a bit engaged with what's out there. And it's engaging. Of course, staying kind of simple, that's something you need, right? Yeah. In this community. So, everyone who knows me knows that I, I'm inviting in my youthfulness. So I'm playful. I dance, I invite people in. And I think it's really critical. Also, when you invite people in every day, and your routine is lighter, and you're like, this, this, this, this, and playful in your youthfulness. I think that's great, I mean, I'll tell them simple things, but like, your simple things. And I think that's really important, because that's what you bring, hands-on, to what you do. You know, not just the routine and no testimony, but, hands-on, how do you speak playfully with people, and therefore, also, love your life. No, but I'm like, please, be playful, please, and enjoy your life. But that's the first habit, that few would mention, in order to do it hands-on, in some way, I love it. Thanks. Another thing, I think, along the same first thing we touched on, is — you need to work fast, right? And work fast. And it also means you need to be willing to go and try, try, try, try, and work through them, and not just hold onto them forever, right? Yeah, please. I think it's like, going with what works, what works well, but going with it, and being able to see how it's kind of an episode, or how it was done well, or somewhat well, and what works, what's right, but also honestly. Okay, I did it in all kinds of ways, or I did it in all kinds of ways. And so, I think that's how you grow as a leader, whether or not you're a product manager, but please, if you're a product manager, being able to look at your feedback loop, I think, is only positive. It's so good. And, always, it's another loop for you, your first loop as a leader, right? Yeah. So, another thing I worked on, which I think is a big deal that you don't put enough weight on,

Eyal David: [32:35] is that if you want to be a guest forty times, at the end of your episode, but please, in your first episode, to be a guest on a podcast, of course, or really, to share your knowledge, and really, to be hosted about your knowledge. Yeah. It's a big deal, and a big blessing for you. I love that.

Eden Naftali: [32:54] Thanks. I do it.

Eyal David: [32:58] So, how was it, being a guest on the first episode, as a leader? You were a leader at Wiz,

Eden Naftali: [33:04] I guess, I built on it. I built on Wiz, as a solutions leader. I'm very specific, about being part of Wiz, what I can look at, and I decided, you know, I read the post about Wiz and made the decision. An episode that— I really grew up wanting to see Wiz, and I guess, I think, from very early on, I saw the connection with product — I read my product in the context of Wiz,

Eyal David: [33:30] and — but let me do this for you: how did you think to get to Wiz? How did I get in? It's a small, small thing.

Eden Naftali: [33:37] I read about this game — I'd already come to Israel. And all kinds of people said, it's really fun. And I said, what do they do? I don't understand what they do. And I asked all kinds of people to try to connect me to it. And no one said anything. And then someone came through, and he came to photograph me and said he loves my energy. He had good energy, he was like that. Alright, I got started. And they'd tell me product — I was already absolutely a student. I think, technical areas, but leading the product. And I mean, there's nothing like what you send that's confusing, and it distinguishes the product. And I saw it a few times, I read it in the context of my product. And I mean, whether or not I move on, I follow closely, and sometimes I keep everything under wraps. Whenever I talk about something, sometimes it's the product. Basically, the story is simply that I joined my team a few days before, especially in a product group, and I needed to describe the product, what I'd get. I described it as best I could, and I think Wiz took me on, but I also — I was kind of special for fighting, fighting, fighting, for cybersecurity. I was kind of — I was special with what Wiz did and does, but also with this, kind of—

Eyal David: [34:56] cyber, the security world. And what happened next? Okay, so you work as a product solutions manager. Cyber — special that you're getting into it.

Eden Naftali: [35:04] How long? Or like, you've been here three years now, right? Yes, I think it's constantly evolving, because I kind of started doing more and more special tracks, but I'm still working with the customers, and I've been working on a lot of really fun things. I was in product security, and they build really challenging products, and start to explain their challenges, and start to explain how we handle the challenge, and then product — I kind of started doing more and more product, and now I work on special tracks. And what function made you think you wanted to be in product? Because I succeeded at product, I love it, it's exciting. Look, even so, in product and in politics, when you can build something, and see it take off, it's like, that's big. It's exciting. And yeah, doing it even so, when you also see its impact, and probably the customers' side of it, and the people who find the routines in what you took on, yeah, it's exciting.

Eyal David: [36:10] So, to wrap up, this was fun, I think. And I decided you'd talk too. Where do you see yourself in ten years?

Eden Naftali: [36:23] It's — it looks good. Broadly, I love learning things. I love learning something — like when I was diving, and I did 3D printing and close decisions, water sports, and now I can learn something at times, from their testimonies, and it's theirs. But I think I'll start learning, and I hope that's what I'll start learning, I'll start passing it on and helping people. I think, I went into politics as a kid trying, which I think is already becoming — tough and important when you don't really get to make much change, but when you work on product, you build one thing, and many, many people reap the rewards. So I hope I get to keep building things, I hope I keep surfing and dancing and enjoying life, and I hope that I get to keep seeing

Eyal David: [37:08] the benefits of what I get to do in the world. I wish you exactly that. Sounds like a great world. Awesome, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me, this was super fun. And here's to more — we're heading to more live episodes. Bye bye. Follow us so more listeners can discover us and find the podcast. You can also find the previous episodes on any app or on the YouTube channel — the links are in the description. Until next time, come on, be productive, and bye bye.