Transcript: Product Strategy at a Hyper-Growth Cyber Company — Dana Gilboa, CPO of Armis

Eyal David: [00:00] Hey friends, this is Eyal. You've reached Product Builder, where you can listen to the most interesting product conversations. My journey began in 2012, when I learned what product is at my own startup. Since then I've worked in the industry, and since 2017 my company has consulted for a variety of companies. My drive is to help all of us improve as product people. And before we start, if you enjoy listening to Product Builder, please rate us five stars on Spotify. It'll give me great feedback that the podcast provides you value, and it would make me very happy. So come on, let's get started! Dana, what's up? All good, so glad you came. Happy to be here. With us is Dana, who came from Armis, CPO. Dana, do you want to tell us in a couple of words about Armis? What does the company do? Sure, Armis is a cyber security company that develops products serving security organizations,

Dana Gilboa: [00:57] across a variety of different fields — enterprise, meaning enterprise bodies too, the worlds of OT, which is industry, the worlds of Healthcare, essentially the ability to understand what they have connected to the network, to see all the assets connected to the network, to protect those assets on the network and the whole organization — the data, the people, the patients, and the employees, and essentially to manage all those assets. And this is something that in the last two-three years has really grown, right? Yes, truly in the last two years we've been in insane growth, I think. So what led to this growth? What was it around? Industries? So both industries and products. Essentially we both increased our control in markets we were already in, and sold more in existing industries, also more sales to federal bodies, and geographies. Oh, so you really started working with federal bodies,

Eyal David: [02:01] and that's something that happened in the last two years, right? Yes. Wow, I love that we jumped so far forward, essentially in your presentation. Yes. So maybe tell us what you do today at Armis?

Dana Gilboa: [02:13] I'm the CPO, Chief Product Officer, I lead the product group, all of it sits here in Israel, essentially there are two main product management groups under me, and a team of... um... responsible for user experience, and a team responsible for Product Enablement, led by our Chief of Staff in product, responsible for all the facilitation and helping the product reach the market more successfully, whether it's Technical Writers, or analysts who help us improve our insights on product usage and build a better product.

Eyal David: [02:50] And how do you orchestrate between these two teams? What does your day-to-day look like? Essentially each one is led by a separate manager,

Dana Gilboa: [02:56] So broadly I work mainly with the managers, also with the product managers, in order to see that we're progressing on all the different fronts. Essentially Armis has five product lines, five main products that we sell. One is Asset Management and Security, the second is a product intended for OT and IoT, a product for Healthcare, as we said earlier. And in addition there are products of Vulnerability Prioritization and Remediation, essentially the ability to manage all the vulnerability remediation processes. It's very strange to have this conversation in Hebrew. And a product of Actionable Threat Intelligence, that provides early detection of exploits of vulnerabilities. You can throw in a few words however you like,

Eyal David: [03:41] it's all good, everyone does it here. So can you expand a bit on each of them, or at least as much as you can? Yes.

Dana Gilboa: [03:48] So the Asset Management product, remind me, essentially as we said earlier, gives the ability to map all the assets of an organization, for each one to understand exactly what vulnerabilities it has, misconfigurations, essentially all the exposures that this asset creates for the organization, beyond the vulnerabilities and exposures it has, also to understand the full context — who the users of this asset are, where it's physically located, and really the context of business importance, so that afterwards, when you come to actually address the problems, it'll be possible to do more accurate and correct prioritization, so the product, as mentioned, maps all the assets, maps the entire attack surface of the organization, which is essentially the assets and, for each one, its vulnerabilities, and provides ways to protect the... the organization and the assets against those exposures, whether it's mitigation of problems we detect at Runtime, attack attempts, say, or whether it's attempts to be proactive, to lower the risk level, whether it's patching things, or segmenting the network better, so it's a product...

Eyal David: [05:07] Tell me, this is essentially Armis's first product, right? Actually we started with a focus, the company started with a focus on IoT,

Dana Gilboa: [05:13] IoT, right, sorry. Yes, in 2016, it started then, everything became connected, and that presented a challenge to security bodies in organizations, that essentially tons of things are connected to their network, that they don't know are there. Like, IoT products, by their nature, are less locked down, less maintained, less patched, they're just there, and no one knows they're there, and they essentially form a kind of breach that invites a hacker, it's pretty crazy, but from 2016 to 2024, they're still the most targeted assets, meaning, like, by hackers, and pose a danger, but let's go back to 2016, essentially, as everything became connected, Armis offered a solution to organizations, that helps them understand what all the assets connected to the network are, whether it's a laptop managed by IT, or an IP Camera, or an Infusion Pump, or any other product that essentially connects to the network, and as mentioned, to map all the assets and their vulnerabilities, and the tools to manage them. So we started with OT-IoT, and if I remember correctly, in 2019, I'm bad with dates, we essentially entered the worlds of Healthcare, where a large part of the challenges and problems are shared and similar, and the technological solutions are also similar, and therefore this expansion essentially let us leverage a considerable part of the technological capabilities and knowledge we already had, but there are use cases that are slightly different, whether it's because the devices are different devices, whether it's because the regulation is different, and also because the stakeholders in the organization itself are different, exactly. So the whole Go-To-Market is also different. So essentially, from OT-IoT we entered the worlds of Healthcare, and in 2021, essentially from the expansion that happened between verticals, Armis expanded, essentially deepened the Use Case, from worlds that are more Security Posture and understanding your exposure level, to the worlds of Vulnerability Management and the ability to really manage all... risks. Risks and the remediation processes afterwards. And earlier this year, we essentially made an acquisition of a company called Silk Security, which accelerated our presence in this market even more, and really enables us today to provide a solution in the worlds of Remediation Management. So that... those were the five. And ATI. And ATI, right. Which is also an acquisition, a company named CTCI, and it has very unique technology, essentially through monitoring of the Dark Web, Honeypots, and other solutions unique to it, it enables detecting attempts to exploit vulnerabilities and take advantage of vulnerabilities, long before any vendor... take advantage of vulnerabilities, long before any vendor... or any other body in the world does it, and this information is super critical in prioritization processes, when organizations today have hundreds and thousands of vulnerabilities they need to handle every week or month, so essentially the ability to know that there are already hackers in the world trying to target devices of this type and exploit these vulnerabilities, turns it into something that essentially gives you a lot more time to handle a vulnerability, before it's exploited.

Eyal David: [09:10] When you know what the hype is, you know how to prioritize accordingly. Exactly. Wow, really cool. How do you orchestrate all this? I don't know, but essentially how, what are the values you lead in these groups, in these products, what does it look like?

Dana Gilboa: [09:17] So we very much believe in ownership and accountability, we have three values in the products group, there are additional Armis values, but inspired by them we essentially derived... values for the group itself, the first being Own Your Domain, essentially to fully control the domain you lead and are responsible for, whether it's knowing the market and competition completely, understanding the technological or regulatory trends that affect the world you're in, deeply understanding the technology you're responsible for, and the customers' needs. And the customers' needs. And the customers themselves, and to understand how the features you released actually live out there, what their support processes look like, how customers feel about them, how much they use them, and really to be On Top Of Everything, even if you're not the person who actually executes that thing or that area. So I think this is a fundamental value of ours, the sense of Ownership and accountability over your area in the product, and over your domain. All of it. The second value is One Team. Collaboration is very important to us. In the end many of the different areas in the product depend on other areas, are affected by other areas. It's important to us that people work well together, and not in competition, and create meaningful synergies between the different areas and the different products, and really work by the same priorities and in good spirit. And the third value, inspired by Operation Grandma, is Excel Then Improve. Essentially our need and desire for people to always strive to do the best they can, but with the understanding that they can probably do even better, and to try to understand where it's possible to improve and learn and do better next time. Amazing. That was our first mention of Operation Grandma here, so well done, and one.

Eyal David: [11:30] Two, I'm sitting on two more small things I wanted to ask. First thing, the product from 2016 that essentially identified all the devices, the IoT — wow, in 2016, to think of that and essentially bring it to market, when it really exploded, 2017, 2018, it's amazing. It apparently created a crazy opportunity that was there. And the other thing I wanted to ask, so essentially all the products you mentioned connect on the back end to some suite that I log into on the platform,

Dana Gilboa: [12:01] yes. And the security person has essentially the... yes. All kinds of these tools? Yes. Yes, so all the products are essentially part of Centrix, which is Armis's Exposure Management suite. All these products are essentially fueled by our Asset Intelligence engine. Armis was founded from the start as a SaaS company, which essentially gives us crazy access to information and the ability to see, to see billions of devices and essentially build an engine that, based on the knowledge it accumulates from billions of devices it has seen, is able to identify them better, also to understand their normal behavior, to identify normality, and really provide much better insights, so that's Centrix, and the acquisitions we made also essentially connected to the same platform, and essentially created synergy. And essentially created synergy with these products, using the context that the Asset Intelligence engine knows how to build, to enhance the threat intelligence we build, and the early detections, to prioritize remediation processes in the organization much better, and really all of them play together, and that's our focus, always to create more synergies between the different products.

Eyal David: [13:30] Amazing. So amazing. It also reminds me of, essentially, our intelligence. It was in Israel recently too, about devices across the border. Interesting. Not related to me. Not related, of course. I also want to know, so the product people, are you hiring product people now?

Dana Gilboa: [13:46] Actually we just hired recently, and we're growing all the time. Really in the last two years we've grown like crazy. And I anticipate that will continue too. We're also hiring tons of developers now. We'd love for you to join. Amazing. Let's go over them essentially to understand what you're looking for.

Eyal David: [14:06] So you mentioned the values you advocate for product people, but essentially what are the product skills that in your eyes are most important?

Dana Gilboa: [14:12] So okay, accountability we said. Right. So I'll say that skills vary from role to role, and can also be learned. And therefore, like, when I look for skills, unless it's a role where we really need someone who understands something specific, and we don't have time to teach them, then skills are Secondary, like it's really not the first criterion, and we look more for the traits and qualities that a product manager has. Sharpness of thought, the ability to separate the essential from the trivial, the ability to cut and make a decision, the ability to distill a message and convey it well, the ability to work with excellent communication, because in the end, because they, I think we all know, you need to work with development, need to work with Sales, need to work with R&D, with marketing, with tons and tons of different bodies, so really the ability to communicate excellently, and that all the values we spoke about earlier exist in them. So like tons of soft skills in addition to sharpness of thought and focus, and essentially be a nice person and such. I have to admit that the ability to prioritize and the ability to cut a decision is not something trivial.

Eyal David: [15:34] That's it, that's something that comes with experience, right? At the end of the day, you're looking for experienced people. It's something that comes with experience, and something that comes with character.

Dana Gilboa: [15:40] Like the desire to be in that place of cutting the decision.

Eyal David: [15:47] To decide. And there are many people who avoid it. And another question, so essentially today are you hiring only people with a cyber background? Or how does it look? Because the reason I ask, and this was a follow-up to what I asked, is that you talked a lot about soft skills, you talked about deciding. Okay, they probably learned the industry. Do you look only at people who came from cyber? Or from certain units?

Dana Gilboa: [16:08] No. I will say that in the end our product is a very, very technical product. So people who don't have some technological affinity,

Eyal David: [16:15] No. I will say that in the end our product is a very, very technical product. So people who don't have some technological affinity,

Dana Gilboa: [16:24] I think it'll be harder for them to learn and integrate, but again, it very much depends on the person themselves, and how much interest they have in these things, and how hungry they are to learn and integrate. But no,

Eyal David: [16:38] absolutely not, only unit alumni. Amazing, you heard it. Okay, so what challenges do you actually run into? You described a platform, you described two big groups, you described like a world that needs to be conquered? What does it look like?

Dana Gilboa: [16:51] So in the end I think that Armis, knock on wood, and these are absolutely good problems, when you have so many customers, and each of them with slightly different needs, so... so you're always in that balance between helping all the customers, and giving them the feature request they ask for, and fine-tuning the product to everyone's needs, versus the need to innovate, and also to think about the problems they'll have tomorrow, and provide the answer to them in advance. So it's always a balance like that between how to generate innovation, when you also have the install base, that you need to remain accountable toward, and give it... I think you said something very important earlier,

Eyal David: [17:36] you essentially talked again about the different verticals, the different industries you operate in, versus the general need.

Dana Gilboa: [17:42] That's also a thing, no? There are areas that are clearly shared to us, and therefore they're more... wait, we think about them in a way that's more generic and general, and for the sake of argument, RBAC, there won't be much difference, and there are areas that are completely very very very very focused on the vertical, that you work in, and therefore there's also a separate group that deals with it, and we want that group to be able to run as fast as possible, on the needs of the customers of that vertical, and really have all the set of roles and resources they need, to conquer the world they're focused on. So we do separate essentially between different groups, to enable that running, fast running, and alignment to objectives that are a bit different.

Eyal David: [18:38] So like the discovery process too, I don't know if it's your challenge or the team's challenge, discovery is like complex, right? Because there are tons of personas of security people from all kinds of organizations, right? It's a challenge, how do you deal with it?

Dana Gilboa: [18:52] So luckily we have essentially tons of supportive and loving customers, and we hold all kinds of forums, whether it's a Customer Advisory Board and a Technical Advisory Board, and ad-hoc conversations with tons and tons of customers, who collaborate and are happy to give feedback and give inputs, and essentially a PM as part of the discovery process can reach out to a great many customers, and involve larger customers, smaller ones, from different industries, according to the specific need of the feature they're working on, and do the discovery that way, and also on large new capabilities or new modules, we do this again with the help of the Customer Advisory Board, where customers from different fields come, and really help us prioritize the future directions better too.

Eyal David: [19:51] That's it, let's talk for a moment about innovation, really, so it's possible innovation will come from there, like ideas or the cutting edge, how else do you actually bring new directions?

Dana Gilboa: [19:59] So really the very very very close dialogue with customers, and hearing what hurts them and what other problems we can solve for them, that I think is our main fuel for innovation, and I very much also believe in innovation that is bottom-up, and really to empower the developers, the data science people, all the different stakeholders with deep knowledge about the problem space, about what the user is actually trying to do, about why we're now building this or that module, and once the developer building a feature understands the need and why we're doing this feature, then it's possible they'll come to the PM in the end with a proposal that's like much much better than what the PM thought of, or they'll just think of a technological innovation or a new algorithm that can solve a problem the PM didn't even think to solve, because in the end we work with super smart people, and if we give them this knowledge then we can generate what I call effective innovation, not ideas for the sake of the beauty of engineering, but ideas that really solve our customer's problems.

Eyal David: [21:17] The business need, right? If you give context, it's entirely a bit like what you give your users. Exactly. Tell us a bit about your path to product. How did you actually get to it?

Dana Gilboa: [21:30] So actually I never decided to get into product, I started as a developer, and I always moved essentially on this axis between the technical, which is — at the Technion they very much teach you that you need to excel at the technical and be a whiz and such, so between the technical axis and the more functional axis and understanding the user, and writing the spec for how this screen needs to look, so between where I was navigated, was steered, in the past, and the fact that in the end I always somehow found myself the one responsible for spec'ing the more functional parts, and every time I was drawn there, so I think you could say life drew me into product, and it was never a conscious decision, so I was a developer, after that I was a team lead, then I moved to being a PM, then I went back to managing development, and after I managed a development group, then I essentially moved to managing a product team, and since then I haven't gone back,

Eyal David: [22:41] still haven't gone back to development. Wow, I'm really curious, so like this is a path I haven't heard much about, that you essentially do — no, obviously coming from development, I'm also from development, but I mean getting into product, going back to being an R&D team lead, R&D, interesting why, but okay, and then essentially moving back to being a product team lead, and I'll ask, when you were an R&D team lead, how hard a life did the product person working with you have, surely not?

Dana Gilboa: [23:09] No, I think I actually work in a chill way, no, I don't remember making life too hard, but yes, like I was always kind of in deliberation, and I think already like some, I don't know, 12 years, maybe even more, I've been managing like teams or groups of product, and super love it, almost always, really an amazing role in my eyes.

Eyal David: [23:42] So you're like very versatile essentially, you also bring solutions to the table, you enjoy it?

Dana Gilboa: [23:48] I used to be versatile, I don't know if solutions in C++, or like the last time I developed before, what I was, choosing going forward, but yes, in the end the technological understanding, the ability to estimate a development task for a moment, the ability to break it down, to understand how you break it down, is indeed something that to this day serves me, and constitutes an advantage, in the ability to break down a problem at all, Tell me, this is essentially your super power, right? Super... super power. Yes, I don't think it's necessarily, like, only on the technology side, but I think it's taking the... maybe my skills, from my development days and the need to model things, also for life in general, I think I have a not-bad-at-all ability, to take a complex problem like that, where you're all in a mess, and break it down into boxes, and put each dilemma into a box, that fine, so this one there's nothing to deal with anyway, because we'll only know the answer in another month, to build like a flowchart of how, if this then this, if this then this, and there everything converged, so this doesn't interest us, let's put it aside and move on, so I think it's a kind of ability, that took me time to understand, that it's really some strength or advantage, because I always worked with really super smart people, and super technological, so it always seemed super trivial to me, but in the day to day in the end I found myself many times, the person who like gets up, and like takes a marker and starts drawing on the board — but with this, on this, on this, like so, and that's it, and I think that's like a significant advantage, for a product manager, and in the last years, since I'm more in a position, of management, I found myself many times encouraging my product managers, mainly the younger ones, and to my great regret usually more women, to be the person with the marker, that even in a room with tons and tons of smart people, to ask the questions, and even if it can put you out there a bit, like what, you didn't know or something, to ask the questions and break down the things, and take that place that navigates the way, and pushes toward the solution, and not be the person who continues and complicates things, but rather to lower the drama,

Eyal David: [26:30] and strive for the solution. And there's another way of humility and feedback and without ego for you — why women specifically?

Dana Gilboa: [26:37] Why did you mention it? Because really, in the last years that I've been managing, and I get to look more at these situations from the outside, it's like women feel less comfortable for a moment to get up and say, okay, stop rambling, let's move on, or feel less comfortable, even if I'm still doing the solution, many times I've gotten to sit in a room where I know, that she knows what to do, but still she won't get up and like, say, listen up.

Eyal David: [27:08] How do you work on it with her? To say it. I know how it is, I also work with young product managers, and I'm wrong like, it's not simple to say, it's examining the situation,

Dana Gilboa: [27:20] it's measuring it, like, how do you measure? Right, but I think that in the end, by someone, from the outside, believing in you? Believing in you, and telling you, you know what, get up and take the marker. Get up and say it. Ask the questions. So I think there's something in it, that very much empowers you, like, and gives you the power, to get up and do these things yourself. The fact that when someone asks a question that maybe is silly, or, so, they, like, to give it space, and answer their question, and not silence them, and also to ask the dumb questions yourself. In the end, when we, as managers, like, are in a room, then to show that you ask a question, that may indicate ignorance, or say something that may not be correct, and that's something I think in the end instills, an atmosphere that it's legitimate, and it's okay, and I think that, like, it's elementary, so that in the end we don't scatter in directions that aren't logical, and ensure we do the right things,

Eyal David: [28:28] both asking questions, and also at times. That's it, that's usually, as you said, the problem of the very smart people, who are already running, and they get to the bottom line, and they run forward, and maybe we don't even need to go there, as you say, and maybe it's also possible to group several problems from several customers, as you said, which is essentially the need. Cool. So essentially the closing, one around this, is it essentially something you turn to the product managers about, or to a product manager, or that... it's not that I now, like,

Dana Gilboa: [28:53] on a journey with her and... in the situations where I encounter this, then I like very much try not to be indifferent to it, and not to let these things kind of continue to happen, but rather to stop and say, listen. Or listen. You, like, you have an idea, you have the thing,

Eyal David: [29:14] speak. You have a great message for him — I'm a very practical person, I very much believe in not rambling. Cool. So essentially we touched, in your description of Armis, essentially we talked about the first years, we talked about how you expanded to more verticals, super interesting, interesting like, the thinking behind it, the strategic one, but we don't have to dive into that, but let's talk now, what are you doing now, since then or in the last year for that matter. So really we,

Dana Gilboa: [29:39] like, as I said earlier, acquired two companies this year, and invested a lot in integrating them, to generate synergy, and integrate them to create an end to end use case. I want to open a parenthesis,

Eyal David: [29:52] may I? Sure. Around this. Can you tell about the process where you essentially decided to buy, and maybe what led you to this decision?

Dana Gilboa: [29:59] Sure. The truth is there are two different stories. Essentially in 2021, if I remember correctly, we created our Vulnerability Management product, which gave the ability to essentially take various security findings, and prioritize them much better, than what existed in 2021. Really to take the asset context, and the severity of the vulnerability, and generate policies that give better priority, and then trigger remediation. And we released the product, and to our great joy, we discovered we can't meet its demand. What do you mean? Okay. In the end, like it got amazing traction, and everyone wanted more integrations, more changes, adaptations, and we simply discovered that we're not — like the pace at which we develop the product is not, like it doesn't meet its demand, and in the end there was a crazy business opportunity here, that we wanted to really be able to leverage, and therefore... you started with cutting timelines. We started, yes, to accelerate our delivery, of this area, and we met the founders of Silk, and it was like right after the first meeting, like a perfect match, of the vision of what we wanted to do, what they want to do, and it really fit perfectly, and like in a short time the deal really closed, and we connected the things, and really the value to customers is...

Eyal David: [31:48] So more parentheses or no more parentheses? Essentially so you killed the previous product, you sunset it,

Dana Gilboa: [31:54] you migrated the people to this new product, how long did it take? How was it? We're still in the process, because in the end, a, we have a very large install base, and essentially we also don't want to force customers to do these things in... that's it, that's it. It's all also like people invest time in implementing this thing, right? Right, right. And therefore in the end we don't force customers to migrate, we don't interfere in the timeline of their projects, in the end there are benefits to migrating to the new product, so we essentially work with everyone, to understand when the right point for them in time is, to migrate or not migrate, but... so you continue to maintain it? It really, it wasn't in order to kill the... the product we had at that time, but rather really to be able to sell to more customers, and we still continue to maintain the existing product. As Nadir likes to say, with great power comes great responsibility, and we really, we have responsibility toward our customers,

Eyal David: [32:58] and we do this... um. Amazing, so we closed the parenthesis, we'll return to the second product, you said it's a different story.

Dana Gilboa: [33:06] Yes, so CTCI, it's a story that at some point rolled in by chance, a meeting that was set up at Black Hat, in the United States, and we met essentially Andrew and Michael who were the founders of CTCI, and it wasn't a direction we pursued before, but in the end the conversation with them and the... like their idea suddenly... what, what does the product do? What does the product do — so I think I referred to it earlier, it essentially enables getting indications of exploitation in the wild, by essentially monitoring all kinds of chats and hacker groups and things like that, and via the honeypot that you essentially generate and see attack attempts, so essentially identifying very early indicators that there are hackers, trying to exploit a vulnerability, and essentially we give our customers the ability to know months before CISA or any other product or body, about there being attempts to exploit certain vulnerabilities, and essentially with this we buy them more time in order to...

Eyal David: [34:24] to justify that earlier expansion. To close the vulnerability, yes. And essentially how did you validate this? So okay, like you met them, they sold the idea, how did you validate that the market actually wants this? That it's worthwhile? That it's worth the money? Remember the CAB from earlier?

Dana Gilboa: [34:38] So really we always work a lot with the CAB, and also our ideas for innovation, and also like ideas for partnerships or more business directions, are things we talk about with the customers, to hear how attractive this idea is in their eyes, how much it answers some need that exists for them, and in these areas too we essentially talked with the customers and understood that wow,

Eyal David: [35:08] it's interesting that you didn't want to develop this yourselves, like in the previous story, to generate some POC that comes up with a POC,

Dana Gilboa: [35:15] now it's no longer a POC, but how come you didn't want to develop it? I think that in the end focus is something critical, and we stay focused on the core of what we do, and every direction that we want to take forward, we examine whether it's right for us to do it in-house, or right for us to partner with another company, or if it's really the idea that's at the core of what we are, and we feel we're missing an opportunity, then to go to M&A, but there are things we don't feel there's an advantage in us building in-house, and in the end, these two founders also had very very very good background and understanding, but this field — cyber researchers and threat intelligence researchers and AI people, very very very experienced, and it was the right direction. Amazing.

Eyal David: [36:16] So essentially, thank you for these two stories, so now essentially the direction is to deepen more in the existing verticals, are you exposed to more verticals,

Dana Gilboa: [36:23] what's the plan? So we continue to deepen in the existing verticals, essentially the whole world of attack surface management, is itself constantly evolving, whether it's because of new technologies coming out that need to be addressed, or whether it's because of new paradigms entering the market, and how the customers themselves start doing security processes. So the whole topic of exposure assessment, and continuous threat exposure management processes, or by its abbreviated name, these are processes that customers are increasingly adopting, and essentially Centrix expands to give them support in more stages of this process.

Eyal David: [37:13] So like, you're saying, hey, we have hundreds of customers, let's deepen in them, essentially let's stop for them much more on what it is within our suite,

Dana Gilboa: [37:21] and there's like, apparently a big pie you can eat from. Totally. Essentially, Armis is something unique in that, you have a lot of TAM it's looking at, because there are a number of different products addressing different markets.

Eyal David: [37:34] So... what a challenge. What a challenge, yes, back to challenges. So you're hiring like crazy, then. Yes, we're hiring. Okay, so you heard it. Well, Dana, what a joy. I really learned a lot, we didn't talk much about competitors, we'll touch on that maybe next time you're here. I had a really great time, and I want to ask you, what do you wish for yourself in ten years? To splash water.

Dana Gilboa: [38:01] To enjoy, belly-up in the pool, just kidding. Really not. Actually I'm kind of... I don't know, if... when I was younger, then it was always clear to me what the next stage was that I wanted to advance to, I'm today in a position where it's not self-evident for a moment what the next step is. I have to admit that I'm mainly super curious, and I feel like, where Armis will be in ten years, because it's really a super special company, super hungry, and I have no doubt that like...

Eyal David: [38:34] it'll succeed like crazy. Sounds like a company that's very resilient to the future, unlike many other companies, it has a future that you can like see from here. Knock, knock, knock. Obviously, how do we not knock on the table here, crazy.

Dana Gilboa: [38:46] Yes, because I think that in the end walking very closely with the customers, and understanding what their needs are, and what their challenges are, also what isn't working for them today, is something that's really essential to success, because it makes everything you do much much more accurate. And product and R&D are things you'd want to continue in, or does the business side interest you more? I think I'm a fan of the production floor, and I love, like in the end I love the doing of making things, and creating things, and moving the ship forward like that, so I think I'm staying on this side.

Eyal David: [39:27] So I wish you lots of success with it. Thank you very much. And do you have any recommendation for the listeners?

Dana Gilboa: [39:34] Be the person with the marker. Just kidding, it's not necessarily about being the person with the marker, it's more about being able to identify what you're strong at, and what makes you unique, and if you don't know then to ask the people around you, and from there to really grow and leverage it, and understand what can help you develop forward from that place of strength.

Eyal David: [39:59] Totally, and I think that the suggestion you gave is still good too, because to be that person who creates order, is usually a terribly necessary thing, and maybe it's also easier to get into things, if you're the one who creates the order, wait, and maybe also next time there's a meeting, they'll start from a place where there's already more order, and like get more to the point, so maybe that's actually good, great point. Come on Dana, thank you very much. It was a great pleasure. Thank you very much. Come on, bye bye. Bye bye. Hey friends, thanks for listening. If you found this podcast valuable, you can subscribe, follow us, of course for more episodes, on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or any other app, of course if you didn't find us on some app, I'd be happy for you to write to us. We'd love five stars on every platform, and for you to follow us, so that more listeners can be exposed to us, and find the podcast. You can also find the previous episodes, in every app, or on the YouTube channel, we have links in the description. Until next time, come on, be efficient, and bye bye.