Transcript: Finding Your Zone of Genius with Nofar Gottlieb

Opening: Nofar introduces herself and the vision of 50 businesses with 50 partners

Eyal David: [00:00] Hi Nofar, how's it going? Well, good morning. Morning, right, yes, morning. It's so great that you're here.

Nofar Gottlieb: [00:07] I'd like you to introduce yourself the way I mentioned, the way you introduce yourself today. Today. Today. Yes, it's a bit different from how I usually introduce myself, but this is a professional podcast, so I'll do the... yeah, you can't tell I came in with a bit of... Oh, you can tell. Okay, fine. This time I'll fit myself into the format. So, I'm Nofar Gottlieb, and I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a partner in a company I founded together with an amazing partner named Yoav, a company called 50 55. Under 50 we're basically building lots of businesses with different partners. The name reflects the vision: our vision is to build 50 businesses with 50 different partners in five years. I live my life, and that's usually how I introduce myself. I really believe in living my life. I won't say it's as if every day is my last day on Earth, because I don't want to be passive, but out of a kind of agenda where every day I'm here, I choose to enjoy the path I'm on. Not every day is perfect, of course, but still, I choose to enjoy my path. And recently I also started accompanying people who feel they're in some process of change, who want to figure out where they flourish, the thing that lets them get up in the morning into work

How we met: the talk 'The Gift You Didn't Ask For'

Eyal David: [01:21] and creation around things that excite and fulfill them. So let's say for a second how we actually met. First, it turns out we knew each other through other circles before, but basically you had an email going around from startup to startup, a wide mailing saying hi, I'm giving a talk on what was the exact title, The Gift You Didn't Ask For, which was basically about the zone of genius, which is a buzzword popping up everywhere now, right. And basically I told you, hey, come on. And when we talked in the prep call, or the intro phone call, it really felt very, very interesting, and I also shared some numbers about how many people stayed through it. It sounds like a really interesting topic, right. So basically, why live life, as you said, as if it's your last day? For me it's fairly clear, but maybe still, we talked about it a bit before. But look, we're in Israel of 2026, we've been through some very turbulent years here: COVID, a war

Nofar Gottlieb: [02:19] that in some way is still here. I can't put my finger on exactly what it was that made me realize this, it was probably a combination of things. And I truly believe that I don't know how long I'm here, in the least cliché, most genuine way. I'm here and I want to enjoy the time I have. I can struggle every day, and I can get up every Saturday night and say, Sunday tomorrow, what a bummer. But why, when I can do it differently? It's easier said than done, but yes, from the moment I understood this is how I want to live, all my resources

Eyal David: [02:53] focus there, and it's possible. I'm doing it, I know other people doing it, so it's possible. So we'll try to understand a bit more in this conversation why. And what I was thinking while you said that is that our generation is starting to get this, starting to ease into it, maybe because of everything you said, and also AI and all sorts of changes happening. The generation after us already gets it, I think. That's something I really feel. The generation before us, the boomers, less so, right. By the way, it's interesting how this will affect our kids. Very much so. So, okay. So maybe explain, the way you'd explain it to your kids, what the zone of genius is.

What the zone of genius is, explained through her kids

Nofar Gottlieb: [03:33] Well, I don't explain the zone of genius to my kids, but I do conduct myself with them from that place. Broadly, let me explain for a second how I see the zone of genius, and it's also a bit of a worn-out buzzword. So I'll just put the... I suggested you explain it the way you'd explain it to your kids. Yes. Yes, I just don't talk to them about it, to be honest, but I will explain it through my kids. You know what? Each of them has their own strengths, and I really see where they flourish. The things where, when they do them, they can go for hours, they enjoy it, it comes easily, and no matter how much I'm dying of heat out in the sun, my daughter gets on a horse and she flourishes there, she can go for hours. And my son plays soccer, no matter if it's July or August at the peak of the heat, he enjoys himself there for hours. Each in their own areas, and of course there are other things too. So for me, my role as a parent is really to give them all the resources to flourish in the places where they flourish. To me that's the core of, again, the zone of genius. Let me unpack that name for a second, because it's a bit lofty. You could call it being in your element, understanding what that thing is where you flourish, where you're at your peak. I think when we talked about it, I told you it feels a bit like the core of something, meaning the whole idea of finding your zone, your zone of genius, whatever we call it. To me it connects strongly to things from back when we were kids, things we had in us back then that were very, very meaningful. Say with my son, he's insanely funny, okay, it's a trait he has where anyone who meets him falls in love with him in a second. My daughter is insanely sociable. Beyond that, each of us has our hobbies that really fulfill us. So everyone has their own strengths that, in my view, they came into the world with. Okay, now, true, we as parents, as a culture, as institutions, shape the people we raise, and we as adults were also shaped by cultures, by expectations, and so on. But in my view, once we're deeply connected to that thing that's been with us from the very beginning, and we do something with it, and maybe that's the biggest question mark here, okay, so what do I do with the fact that I'm really sociable or really funny? But when we're aware of it and we steer ourselves toward it, that's where magic can really happen. The thing is that for most of our lives, or most people, most of our lives, we drift away from ourselves. Because we were told it's important to get this degree, and where's the money in dancing, in playing music, go do something you'll also earn from, so go study economics now, even though it doesn't interest you at all because you might actually be an incredible saxophone player. So people drift away from themselves over the course of their lives. And to me there's huge importance in understanding where I truly flourish. What areas did you identify in yourself? You went through this process, it's because of you that we're having this conversation, so what areas did you discover? I'll tell you in two beats, because I went through it in two processes, and it was very interesting to see how each time I did this research on myself, something a bit different came out. When I distilled it a year, a year and a half ago, a little over a year, I was very oriented toward I want to say business, that's broadly what really interested me. I knew I really enjoy bringing something into being, creating something. And then I did the whole zone-of-genius thing. The exercise you do is based on a kind of life map. I listened to all sorts of podcasts, read all sorts of content, went deep into it for about a week. That's all I did, learning what this zone of genius thing is and how I get to it. And when I went deep into it and created this life map for myself, what became very, very clear is that from a very young age I've been an entrepreneur, but but I never called myself that. It was always like, who are you, how can you call yourself an entrepreneur? Lots of conversations about self-worth. But looking back, I saw that in the school newspaper I was already initiating things that didn't exist before, and in the army I was a welfare NCO and I started tons of lending projects for soldiers when nothing like that existed before. And everywhere I worked I always initiated things nobody ever expected me to, because there was some need, and I said, fine, I'll go do it. And then I distilled the fact that I simply really love creating things from scratch. I see a need and I make it happen. That also connected strongly to my last role as an employee, when I worked at a startup as the first employee. I built the whole go-to-market there and brought us to crazy business achievements, and obviously all of that contributed a lot to my sense of meaning, of capability, and of self-worth. So it was very easy for me to connect that I'm really, really good at, and flourish in, building businesses, helping people identify where they flourish, and doing a kind of mix and match, meaning I'm strong at this, you're strong at that, let's build it together.

Two rounds, two answers: an entrepreneur from a young age

Eyal David: [08:29] So zero to one, resourceful, let's call it, and a driver, and also selling.

Nofar Gottlieb: [08:36] So sales, by the way, is an interesting point, because I never really enjoyed selling. The act of selling itself wasn't what fulfilled me. What did fulfill me was results, meaning also the recognition that came afterwards. Understanding that I took actions that led the company to raise very significant money, meaning the impact of the actions I took. The selling itself wasn't something I enjoyed. It was always something along the way, that's why I asked, and... Right, but wait, I want to add one more thing, because I did this exercise again a month ago. And I was in a somewhat different mindset, and suddenly something I discovered, by the way there are lots of different opinions on this in the zone-of-genius context, whether the zone of genius can change. So in my belief, again after the process I went through, it doesn't change. What changes is the glasses we put on ourselves when we come to look at the zone of genius. And things I examined a year ago, with the glasses I approached the process with a year ago, today I approached with somewhat different glasses. And I identified more things there. Actually, apropos my being a welfare NCO, that led me to become a recruiter, because I really, really wanted to help people, and at 20 I studied the Satir method, today it's at a school called Emotion, and already back then I really wanted to help people. Again, from very, very young ages, and I'm about to turn 40, this thing walked with me through life and I set it aside for all sorts of reasons. And now that I approached the process again, I realized that the one-on-one, and the ability to help someone go through a personal process with themselves, are also things where I really flourish, and that's also part of my zone of genius. So I have a few. But maybe that's also what characterizes me in general. What does that mean? That I'm a generalist at my core. I'm very That's a conversation in itself, yes, but I enjoy that variety. Today I say it with acceptance. There were periods when I was very self-critical about it, but I enjoy the variety, and while someone else will say, okay, they're a real expert in X, I'm a real expert in this and that, and that's fine.

Zone of excellence vs. zone of genius: 50% conversion without enjoyment

Eyal David: [10:40] There's another thing here, because there's what's called the zone of excellence, right. Right. And when you're a generalist, you can really get stuck on that, or you can get stuck on several things. But you can get stuck on things that are between genius and excellence, right, and maybe not be sure which of them currently satisfies you or moves you. Right, right. That's exactly like I told you, when I did sales I was really good at it.

Nofar Gottlieb: [11:05] I got to a 50% conversion rate, there are no numbers like that, you know. And it fulfilled me so much that I could very easily have thought, yes, this is my zone of genius, I'm phenomenal at selling, amazing. But I wasn't phenomenal at selling; it was that product, in that industry, with its connection to me and that target audience. Put me now to sell ice to Eskimos and I probably won't succeed, but not a cyber product either.

Eyal David: [11:30] Some people really get excited about that, I don't. The conditions that made it succeed were there, that's the thing. I think this goal makes you do a lot of things along the way that are excellence, right, for that matter. So you need to differentiate it and be very sharp when we do this analysis.

Nofar Gottlieb: [11:46] Right. Most people are in the zone of excellence. The zone of excellence, just so I align for the listener's sake, is basically the zone where we're really good and rewarded for it, meaning we probably work in it, earn from it, make a living from it. We advance there, maybe we're even really good at it, fine, nobody can say that's not good. But it's a golden cage, because if I, let's maybe distinguish, let's distinguish for a second the zone of excellence from the zone of genius. In the zone of excellence I'm really good, like I just said. And the zone of genius is a place where it's not only that I'm really good, I do it phenomenally. I can do it for hours without feeling time pass, yes, time moves without my noticing. I'm looking forward to doing what I do, I'm excited, it's easy for me, and it also gives some value to the world, meaning not necessarily to the world at scale, but I'm doing something for someone else. I'm satisfied with what I put out of myself. That's the zone of genius.

Back against the wall: why she did the exercise twice

Eyal David: [12:48] So, so, so, I wish there were many more people walking among us like that. Why did you do it twice? Because I was recently at some stage of change that was somewhat forced on me.

Nofar Gottlieb: [12:58] In hindsight I wanted it. I wasn't honest enough with myself to tell myself I wanted it, I only thought about it, and then reality happened and the change happened. And then I said, okay, I choose to take a fresh look. That's also a thing. You need to approach this when you're, I don't want to say with your back against the wall, but when you have enough incentive, right, to say it in Hebrew, that you have enough need and desire, and maybe something pushing you toward it. Right. Otherwise this process is very, very hard. Yes, I really saw that after the talk I gave too. A lot of people wrote to me afterwards that they did the exercise I gave them on how to find the map, I mean the zone of genius, through their life map. And I could really see two kinds of outcomes, because with everyone who wrote to me afterwards, I also asked to hear how it went, out of genuine curiosity. There were those who really did it, you know, were at the right point to explore it and came to it very, very open. And there were those who, and I say this with zero criticism, yes, it's very natural, expected to see a result that would somewhat echo what they do today. And then the whole thing, a bit like I was a year ago, okay, like I told you I came into this research very business-oriented. So they also did it very oriented toward getting the result they want, and then they got the result they wanted. Why, in your opinion? I think that every... wow. A few things. One, first of all, the subconscious that doesn't like challenges, give it the familiar, give it the known, and that's that. And I think that leads us to a kind of blind spot. Meaning, if I, you know, worst case scenario of something like this, say you're a really talented programmer, and you do this life map, and you discover that from a very young age and throughout life it repeated itself, a lot of things you learned, people you really admire, and so on. You identify that, say, you really love, I don't know, tending a garden. Okay? I really don't know, being a gardener, dismantling gardens, building gardens. But you're already a programmer earning your thirty, forty, fifty thousand shekels a month, and you're used to a certain standard of living. And suddenly, what does it mean that I'm now going to be a gardener? First of all, what do I tell myself about it, what will others think of me, what does it mean for my standard of living? There are a lot of implications

Two kinds of results after the talk, and blind spots

Eyal David: [15:17] that don't really let us look at it in the cleanest way. So that connects strongly to what we said, because you basically need to have your back against the wall to take on a change, which is also a risk, and so you need to be... Right, most people, by the way, make a change when their back is against the wall. Exactly. Right, so okay, those were the results, and that's interesting. So you said life map, life map, life map, life map. Take us there. How did you even approach it? How did you even come across it? Even though you listened to podcasts at first, right? Yes. The truth is it was when I met Yoav, who today is my partner, but back then I didn't know him.

Meeting Yoav, and two years of discovery

Nofar Gottlieb: [15:50] I met someone who was a stranger to me, told him about myself, and he said, you're an entrepreneur through and through, go do what you're good at. I told him I'm tired, I don't want to anymore. I was exactly at the point where I said, okay, maybe I'll go back to being an employee after two years of doing fractional CRO and CRO work.

Eyal David: [16:07] And then I told myself, okay, what do I have to lose, apropos back against the wall. Interesting, wait a second. So you were in a situation where you were thinking of going back to being an employee, everything was open, but you met him with the hat of building something together? No, I met him as a random person who just writes things on LinkedIn that really interested me, and from there we met. It was the most agenda-free conversation.

Nofar Gottlieb: [16:27] I think at that point he spotted something in me that was there and that I had silenced. I'm so not suited to being an employee, but I'd been an employee my whole life, so I had no problem going back to it. I was already after two years of trying to do some discovery with myself, and I did all sorts of things for two years.

Eyal David: [16:46] What did that look like? Exhausting? What, in ideation? Ideation? It wasn't two years, there was also an attempt

Nofar Gottlieb: [16:54] to join a startup as a co-founder, which we tried for a few months and it didn't work. I mean, but it was basically discovery about yourself. Yes, but it wasn't, let me be precise. It was two years that were also practically going and trying all sorts of things, meaning I could join some startup and try things. In addition, to actually make a living, I also did work, meaning I joined early-stage founders and built all their business infrastructure with them.

Eyal David: [17:22] There wasn't much ideation there, meaning I examined opportunities when they came along. But you tried it on yourself, that's what I mean. You went, and as you say, you were an entrepreneur at a startup, you do everything. But I'll ask this specifically, because you did everything on a low flame, I'd say, right, you did it half the time, a half to a quarter of the time, right? How much did that really help you taste it and see where you like it and where you don't?

Nofar Gottlieb: [17:47] As a generalist, you said. Yes. Look, it's a bit hard to talk about the question that way. I can say that after those two years of trying all sorts of things, I felt, first of all, that nothing was the right fit for me. I felt I was straining a lot, and I know that when I'm aligned, things are easy for me, like when I... or the other way around, let me put it differently. When it's easy for me, I know it's in the right place. Okay? Not easy in the sense of not challenging, but easy, I enjoy it. Meaning, I can still work hours upon hours and into the middle of the night, but I don't feel the strain there. And when I worked even the few hours I worked and I strained, and I was overthinking things, then I understood I'm not in the right place. So for two years I did this in all sorts of formats. Until I really got to the point where I said, okay, I've had enough, I'm not going to do more of the same, that would be insane, so let's do something else. And then the inner conversations of, okay, go back to being an employee. There were conversations like deep inside, if I was really, really honest with myself, it was clear to me that this was so not what I should be doing, but I got tired, and let's find what I should be doing. I tried to distill and see where that flag was. It really was at a point where it was the most back-against-the-wall, it was really the stage where I said enough. I don't want to get up in the morning and be bummed about my day anymore. And that was the point. Okay. Yes. And then there was really this process where I met Yoav, and then I took a week for myself. It was a week where I had calendar slots for sending out CVs. Wait, what did he tell you? He told me, you're an entrepreneur, go figure out what your zone of genius is and you'll see you'll succeed. And I remember it was like a conversation with a genie granting me a wish, about the gift, telling me whatever you want will come true. That's how I experienced it at that moment. What does he want? I'd also heard about the zone of genius before, yes, but never... There's the book with the fish, right? I don't know. Judging by the cover, there's a fish jumping out of a fish tank. No, I'm not familiar with it, but probably, what's his name, Dr. Gay Hendricks? Yes, Dr. Gay Hendricks. I didn't read his book, I read all the stuff on, you know, with Lukes.

Eyal David: [19:55] So that's it, and then I cleared that whole week to research it and do this exercise with myself. How did we get to this, because you asked me maybe what the exercise is. And then tell me what that week looked like, you probably remember, right?

The life map: the five circles

Nofar Gottlieb: [20:08] Yes. What does it take to do this exercise? So basically, it was the whole idea of creating this life map. Life map sounds very generic, so let me be precise for a second. It's basically looking at circles, like themes we've had throughout life, and in the end managing to see the common thread among them all, meaning there are five circles, as he defined them, and these circles really create some kind of connection. And basically there are five circles. The first circle is basically all the traits I had ever since I was a little girl, girl, boy, whatever, each person for themselves. All those things I'm saying are from childhood, but it's not only childhood, it's also, you know, adolescence and a bit after. It's a bit what I started saying earlier, like the core of these things that were ingrained in us. There are people whom others came to for advice on everything from a very young age, there are people who are very good at solving problems from a very young age. People who'll get along socially anywhere, I mean to say this for my kids, you know, very funny, or each person or even, you know, interests you had as a kid, like kids who, say, really love to draw or connect to music from a very, very young age. So we distill what those things were that, back in high school, middle school and elementary school, were very meaningful. Usually people say it starts around age nineteen. That's the first circle. The second circle is all the jobs I worked at throughout life and also what I loved about them, meaning not just all the jobs. Say I identified about myself

Eyal David: [21:52] that I worked at Happening before the army, I think it was gifts, right? What, gifts? Yes, bro, gifts, you know, knick-knacks like that. Today, as a mom, those are decisions I avoid, but back then I remember it really, really excited me to help people find gifts. Like, that was the thing, I got up in the morning thinking, yes, how can I help? And not from a place of selling, but from a place of giving value. Someone needs something. I didn't see it as solving a problem, it was that I wanted to help someone, like someone came in wanting to get something special for someone she loves, and I'll help you make someone else happy. So in that sense, that's really all the workplaces we worked at and what we really loved about them. The third circle is the circle of things I learned throughout life. Now there are the things, the formal ones, you know, a degree and so on, and there are things I learned along the way because I had to. Say, at the startup I led a sales team, I'd never done that before, so I learned it on the move, talked to people, and expanded my knowledge. But I also chose at 21 to go study coaching, and did an advanced course for managers too, and throughout life I went deeper, and today I'm in coaching myself. There's a theme here that repeats itself throughout life. So this whole thing of learning, broadly this whole circle, is supposed to reflect my passion in some way, the things I'm interested in going deep into and learning and so on, even the books I read. The fourth circle is people who inspire me. And this circle is very beautiful in my eyes, because first of all it reflects to us, I believe we can see in others what exists in us. Meaning, I'm blind to things that don't exist in me, and if I saw it in someone else and it inspires me, then it probably exists in me in some way, maybe even just a little, and I want more of it. Or, you know, there's this thing like a person shouting about what they lack, but they need to see that they lack something. So here too, seeing who the people are who inspire me and also what, what it is in them that inspires me, why I admire them so much for it. And that gives me a lot in understanding what values I want to uphold in my life and create within, and so on. And the fifth circle, which I love the most because it's simply the most practical. But you have to be careful. Let me explain and then I'll also add a caveat. It's basically the circle of roles, or more accurately, concrete situations from our lives where we really flourished. And then you really look at those situations where you truly flourished in life, and again, where you could do it until the middle of the night and work hours upon hours without feeling time pass, it's easy for you, and you're giving to someone. So those are the places, that's the fifth circle. And then the whole idea is basically to take all these things. You can do it in a few ways, or write it on a sheet of Bristol board and then take a moment to look and see the common thread. For me that was hard. I took it to ChatGPT. I did it a year ago. If I were doing it today, a year and a bit ago, if I were doing it today I'd say first delete everything it knows about me and start from a blank page for this exercise, because I don't want it to be biased. So that's it, and then basically through it see what that connecting factor is. Tell me, how much is, wow, five circles are enough for you, I didn't want to interrupt. Tell me, a few things that come up for me? One, you said you invested a week in this. Yes. How hard was it to get started? Do you remember? Like, you're saying to remember and so on, wow, I'm trying to jump back to age 9 or 10, what do I remember? So look, the week for me was the time I invested in learning what it is, and how you research it, and also trying to understand. I can't even tell you whether the life map I created is how it's done, or whether I made adaptations, honestly. It worked for me, that's what worked for me, and that's also what I work with today with the people I accompany. I can't tell you if that's really how it is. Yes, I'm not, I'm trying to understand how easy it was for you to go back to those places, because specifically the places you talked about, you can probably choose to make a menu, but because we're laying out a table here, that's how it sounds with five circles. The places that were easiest for me when you talked about it, I was thinking in my head, it's really when you're younger, I'm not talking older than the 20s. You talked about your 20s when you took the coaching course, which was different from what you did in life, because you were in HR at that time, a course, I remember. So basically those are exactly the places where we have no risk and maybe allow ourselves at those ages, so it's worth looking there. Right, by the way, that's how it was for me, but for someone else it could be that from that age their parents are already pressuring them to become an accountant, and they're not at all. So they're an accountant and miserable in life, so they adopt a dog on the side, and probably, I'm just saying, they go to a coaching course, did you do anything with the coaching course back then? Well, for me the whole direction of going to a coaching course came from a completely different place. What place? I finished, it's interesting, but I didn't think about it until you asked just now. So I'll note this is a discovery out loud for the first time. Basically what happened is that I was a welfare NCO in the army and I really felt this need and desire to be there for someone else, and then I had a few options: go study psychology, which is years and so on, or some degree or another with crazy costs. I was looking for some kind of shortcut, basically, okay, if I'm honest enough, I was looking for a shortcut that would help me help people quickly. And then I said, okay, I'll explain, my amazing dad gave me a course, he gave me a discharge gift, for my army discharge, not a birthday, the Turning Point course by Natan Ben David. I did it at age twenty, I was a total odd one out in the room, everyone there, you know, people in their thirties, forties, fifties. Each with their own baggage, and just me like, what am I doing here, I have nothing to fix in my life, everything's perfect, a twenty-year-old girl. But it really, really interested me, and then I did the coaching course and an advanced coaching course, and then I continued, I actually started coaching. It just didn't work. It didn't work because I did it for the wrong reasons, I was looking for the shortcut. In my view I also wasn't ripe for it at that point, because there were many more gaps I didn't see. It was clear to me then, and it's clear to me today, that at some point, and I'll say one more thing, I've been in coaching ever since, okay, the whole coaching world is something I've lived for the last twenty years. And there are many concepts there that I've already adopted in my life today, so it's not foreign to me. But it's definitely something that's been with me since a very young age. And today, by the way, in everything I do at 50, it's very important to me to make sure that every business we bring in, both for me and for Yoav, and we're very in sync on this, is a business that does good for the world. It's not philanthropy, yes, we're building businesses, but it has to be a business that creates value, not gaming, not Facebook. If you want, I'm also not sure if being practical is a strength, a practical strength. Tell me, I don't know if it's a strength, it can be for good or for bad. What? Being practical. Like, you went and took that shortcut because you're practical. Right. It wasn't the right thing. I'm saying it can be for good and for bad, it's also a drawback, and it can also be Generalist is for good and for bad, definitely, although today I actually see companies starting to look for generalists. Yes, you see it? I still meet a lot of generalists who don't find their place in it. It still takes time. Yes, I'm also talking about high-tech, but I see that in times like these there's demand for people who can manage both agents and people, and also tie things together behind the scenes at the same time. So yes, I really see it. That makes me happy to hear. It's probably at the more senior levels, but yes. Okay, so let's go back a second. So you did a life map, or whatever we decided to call it. What's the output you come out with? What's the output? So what did you come out with? Basically, in the end you come out with some kind of sentence, I don't remember the exact wording, but it's like: I flourish when I do this and that for someone, for something. So broadly, it's like, so what did you come out with, what did it say? Yes, I don't remember. I don't remember the exact sentence, it was just very, very clear to me. If I take this thing now, again, I'm not precise with the wording that came out, yes, but here I am, again, in the second session I did about a month, a month and a bit ago: I flourish when I help people identify their strengths and see their lives in a way that's much more connected to themselves. That's my one-liner now, for that matter. Great. And a year ago it was really, here I am, again I'm connecting the two: I flourish in building businesses with people who inspire and create good in the world. Again, don't hold me to the exact words, but broadly, that's how I walk through the world, knowing that these two things are things I'm really, really good at, enjoy, and find easy to do. Great. So that's the framing of the zone of genius at the end of the day? Yes. Okay. Now I want to take this and apply it. We said we're practical and down to earth. I want to go and apply it to my life, I want to apply it to work, to the change, work I want to do, a career, maybe not. How do you take it forward? I'm going to say something really annoying now. It just happened. It's annoying because I don't feel like giving you a playbook where I tell you, take this, do it tomorrow, next. The moment I was super-duper aligned with myself, reality just happened. I was sitting at the beach. I told you I took that week, so the closure of that week was when ChatGPT produced that output for me, and I went to the beach, I reset, I really sat at the beach, distilled things about myself, felt a need to physically write down that sentence that came out and that paragraph, which I also defined my values in, meaning when I looked at people who inspire me, I added that into it too. Meaning, if a year ago it was building businesses, it was clear to me it had to be with a partner. Someone I'd enjoy working with who'd also challenge me, not just enjoyable to work with. It was clear to me that variety was important, it was clear to me it had to do good for someone, meaning some business that contributes outward. And then, while I was sitting at the beach, phone calls started coming in. At the most surreal level I can describe, within I think less than a week, four opportunities with super-duper exciting people whom I really, really admire, some I knew and some I didn't, and it just happened. And by the way, same thing now, it's kind of happening on its own. I relate to that, it sounds like something cosmic, how lovely, the moment I know what my genius is, suddenly magic starts happening and glitter falls from the sky. So I want to say that it was preceded by a process of two or three years. I told you I've been in coaching most of my life, so when I finished at the startup after more than three years, I was really in a process of understanding who I am, which sounds so grandiose, but most of my life I was a very, very people-pleasing person, and I drifted so far from myself that I did things so automatically, without thinking about what I really want. And when I started this process of reconnecting with myself, and I still slip into it sometimes, by the way, yes, but today it's a small percentage of cases. Someone asked me what I want, and I said what I want, but I didn't even know what I wanted, I hadn't done any process of truly, truly getting to know myself. What do you mean they asked you? Wow, it's so, it ran across so many areas of my life. It was at work and it was in the family and it was everywhere, it was everywhere, it was with friends. No, I mean, they asked you and you didn't really know what you want. Yes, I thought I knew. Yes, so let's expand on that a bit. I think there's, say, like a friend might tell me, let's meet up. Sure. I tell her, cool, where do you feel like? And she tells me, Lilach, what do you want? And then I tell her what I want while thinking about what she'd want. You see the screwed-up process, instead of telling her what I want, let's meet at such-and-such café. That's a simple example; when you start getting into life decisions and such, it's a whole other thing, right? But that's exactly the point, I got so used to it for 30-something years of my life, thinking about what the other side needs and wants, that I never asked myself what I want. And then even when I was supposedly the one deciding where to meet, it came from thinking about the other side. Did you know at that time what you love in life? I think there are aspects I did know. Helping others was always there, and that initiative was always there, and creating from scratch, like I see a need and immediately make it happen, that was always there, but I didn't own it, I didn't see it as a desire, it was kind of a default. It's totally screwed up, like, I'm giving you the simplest example. I get it up to here, to what layers it reached. I never thought about it in terms of illustrating it, but. But you know, if just now, in this little conversation between us, I opened someone's mind and they managed to understand for a moment that maybe they're also operating so distant from themselves, then to me that already made the difference, because I was blind to it. That's the signal that needs to drop. And tell me, so you said you basically stepped back and started doing research with yourself. What was it like? Wait, I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about. You said during the coaching period. Oh, okay. Right, you basically went in and dug deep. I didn't step back. I continued everything as usual, just... By stepping back I mean a pause from life, stopping for a second to ask something like that. Yes, but it wasn't in a structured way, meaning coaching sessions, me and my coach, you know, talking about things. But what did you come out with in the end, you did such a process, what did you come out with in the end? So it was an ongoing process, meaning it didn't have a beginning, middle and end. By the way, it's still continuing, I'm still doing it. But its beginning was such a lack of confidence in myself. I had amazing achievements, and everyone who knew me in the role, my name preceded me, and still there was a very, very big gap between what people who know me know I'm capable of and how I perceived myself. And then some process of going back to see the things I'm truly good at, and it's not just good at, it's again also where my true desires really are. I really remember two questions my coach asked me. I'll put them here, but they'll meet each person wherever they meet them. They've stayed with me to this day. Today they're more grounded in me, okay, but they're still, in my view, questions that create a very significant transformation. One was: what is success, for me? Okay, take me a few years back, even to my time in HR, 7-8 years ago. I was sure I was going to be VP HR, that was success. Then I did sales, and I was sure it was to be VP Sales, that is, CRO, and that's so disconnected today from how I live. But I'm telling you I didn't like sales at all. Yes, but no, that's the track, so you do what you supposedly need to get there, we're kind of put on a track. So success for me was getting to some level, earning X salary, and that's where it ended. And then, when I was much more connected to myself, I understood that it's so not that. For me success is earning some salary, money of course, that I can live with in peace. It needs to be high because that's what I choose, but that's one thing, it's only such a small part. For me real success is that balance, enjoying what I do, getting up in the morning happy. I'm also a mom present in my kids' lives, so I want to be present there too, and that combination is really this balance. And I'm someone who was very all-or-nothing most of my life, I learned to set those boundaries anew. I learned to know, I have a tattoo on my leg that's exactly about this balance, about I flourish when I'm balanced. Today, when I feel the balance shifting right or left, I really feel myself no longer stable in some way. So today success for me is in stability, it's not stability of mind, like, in balance, sorry, stability isn't the right word, right, in balance, being there both for myself and for the people I want to be there for, friends, family, the kids, my partner, and enjoying the journey. That's much more meaningful to me than... That was the first question, right. The second question is also a question that, and by the way, again, that question took me something like a year and a half to answer, okay, it's not a question that comes in, I didn't come up with an answer just like that. And the second question is: what if there were no social networks and nobody knew what you're doing tomorrow morning, what would you choose to do? Which is also an unsettling question, because when she asked me, also a few years ago, the default was something completely unrelated, I'd go be a horse trainer. What does that have to do with anything? I don't know where I got horses from, I don't really have any passion for it. But that was such an answer, apropos what you asked earlier about what prevents people from getting to discover their zone of genius. An answer that's very much that same pattern trying to protect itself, and really asking myself what I truly want to do. So I put them here because in my view these are questions worth asking ourselves. The answer won't always be that simple to reach. I wanted to ask you, okay, what's the first step someone can take today to start the process? So probably a year and a half on these questions. Look, I want to say that everyone, I also see this in the people I accompany today, everyone comes to this process from a different place. Some are very aware of their fears and what's holding them back, and some aren't aware and are even afraid or hesitant to ask. Some are in some personal-development process, and some are only beginning the discovery itself of what they really want to do. In my view there's great importance in being connected to your true desires, what you truly, truly want, and not because someone else wants you to want it. And then from there such a process can really create impact. For both you and me, it's a very wide dissonance between being a people-pleaser, as you called it, and being an entrepreneur, right. You have to know where you're going, otherwise what are you initiating? Right, but I don't know, today I no longer experience it as dissonance, because today as an entrepreneur I can decide what I do and what I don't. I'm talking about back then. Right, so if you look for where it doesn't fit me after doing this process, that's a good point, a good flag to look at. Do you have other common mistakes? We understand it's not a [simple] process, you look at it that way, but still, are there common mistakes, from the workshop or from what you see, that you can point to that people make along the way? There's what I said earlier, that really, yes, there's also what I said earlier, which is basically, you talked about tipping the scales from the start. And there's another thing that's a bit related, which is that with all these life circles inside the life map, it's very easy to fall into our zone of excellence. Because even when, say, I gave an example there, something that jumped out at me, in the specific situations that really fulfilled me, I really remember a moment of crisis with a client when I worked at Compeat, at the startup. A big crisis, okay, because it could blow up a lot of things, and I managed it from A to Z. Hours of work a day, 60. And when I finished it I felt huge relief and incomparable satisfaction. And it was a moment where I was really, really fulfilled, and it's very easy to fall into that. Or alternatively, by the way, there was another moment I remember when I closed a deal I was sure wouldn't close, which was super strategic and took months. And in the end it closed, and I did a kind of victory dance, and I remember that dance. I don't remember the situation, where I stood, what I wore. It was a very specific situation. So it's very, very easy to fall, during the life map, into thinking that's where I really flourish, that it's my zone of genius, because here's a specific situation I strongly identify with. But no, because it's just one thing among everything, and say when I ask myself what I really loved in those situations: the impact I could create for the business. Not the enjoyment. What fulfilled me there and the excitement I had there, which by the way is also a question you can refine further, now that I'm thinking out loud, that it's not only the situation itself but what in the situation excited and fulfilled me so much. When I ask myself about those situations, it really was the impact I created for the business, or even a sense of meaning, like if it weren't for me it would probably have fallen apart. Not that it's fucking terrible, it's easy for you to see that it's over. Yes, definitely in the crisis situation too. In the sales situation I got excited because I knew what impact it creates. But those weren't the situations where I truly flourished and started doing them for hours. Did you know inside? Did you know inside, while it was happening? Did you know, do you think? No, what? That it happened? That the situation happened? I'm thinking about situations of mine, wow, where I had moments of victory like that, very... I knew inside that it's really cool, how fun, and I was happy, but I knew inside that it's not something you want to do. I didn't give it enough thought at the time. But yes, it's definitely something that when you do the life map you should be aware of. Yes, it really requires a very high level of honesty with ourselves when doing this exercise. What was it like, really? I picture you for a week, going out in the morning, like that's the thing you're doing. What was it like, or was it over a glass of wine in the evening? How do you do it? What? When I went to the beach? No, no, not the beach. But what are you talking about? No, I'm talking about the life map, that week-long process. Yes, so look, the week's process, first of all, I didn't define it as a week, it was just something that really, really made me curious. Funny, Yoav defined it as a week for you. Right, no, I had in my calendar a week of sending CVs, and I repurposed it for this. And it started as discovery out of a very, very big curiosity of mine to understand what it is and how you research it, and what happens when... By the way, I'll say one more thing, it doesn't always have to be a 180-degree transition. Meaning, like I said earlier with the example of the programmer, the programmers who really love gardening, or gardening, you can decide to continue what you love doing and still weave in those things alongside, as a hobby, as something that might grow over time, even as a safety net, given there are layoffs and we need to note that again too. So I want to say it was just a few very intensive days of learning this thing,

How to work with ChatGPT without biasing the result

The output: one sentence of "I flourish when..."

After the exercise: the beach and the opportunities that came

The people-pleasing habit: when you don't know what you want

Two questions from her coach: what is success, and what would you do if no one knew

The first step: connecting to what you really want

Common mistakes: falling into the zone of excellence

What the week actually looked like: three hours with ChatGPT

Nofar Gottlieb: [44:21] and in the end it came down to two and a half, three hours of work, me and ChatGPT, where I gave it all the guidelines for how I want it to lead me through this process. It created the final output for me. That's three hours, and I have attention issues, so it was hard for me not to step out, but every time I escaped for a second I took a few minutes' break and came back. Yes, I think it's important to do it in one orderly process and not come back to it day after day, but rather be in a kind of flow of looking inward. So that's it. It was the discovery over a few days, then actually writing it for myself, which took me a few hours, and the next day I went to the beach, and there I read it, and like, I won't say the word, I'll say the word, I don't connect with it, but it's a kind of manifesting, meaning why don't I like it, what do I want to say? I want to say it's a kind of connecting to what came out for me there, okay, knowing that this is the thing I want to do in my day-to-day.

Eyal David: [45:22] And that's it, then things just started happening. I think also what happened to you at the beach afterwards probably stemmed from energy and work you did regardless, and that created the opportunity, and it probably connects. Yes.

Nofar Gottlieb: [45:34] Yes. It's probably not enough to just go to the beach and do a process otherwise. No, of course not. That's my process, you know, I also try hard to be careful when I tell it, because it's what worked for me. But it wasn't Elrick. David wrote a book about it, people talk about it, so it's probably true, but it doesn't happen for everyone that you distill your genius and suddenly reality changes. Writes a book about it. Tell me, so we'll do this: do you have ready-made prompts you can share with us? Gorgeous, I created exactly that, I'll send it to you and we can share it with everyone. There are two ways to do it: either a prompt you simply copy into your favorite chat, or really go through it with a Google Doc, a document like that which is a copy, of course personal, whatever works better for you.

The prompt to share

Eyal David: [46:18] Great, so we'll do this: we'll put a link to it and also a link to your LinkedIn, that's best. So if you have questions or comments or anything, add them to the episode and you'll be happy to answer. Of course, with pleasure. Nofar, is there anything else occupying you these days, business-wise? What's occupying you most today, your brainchild, basically?

What's on her mind today: B2C marketing and GEO

Nofar Gottlieb: [46:47] I want to tell you something completely unrelated, it's B2C marketing, but it's not related to our topic. Expand a bit, that's fine. Yes, today we're at a stage where we have many products at 50 being launched, each product in a different market, a different content world. How do you do B2C marketing today? It's very hard. I'm discovering that. It's something you haven't done until now. No, I come from the B2B world, it was always in organizations. Sure, you had experience building communities and such. Yes, I built communities, but that was always from my network, because it was very easy for me to grow it. I think B2C marketing in Israel is relatively easy, because it's very easy to reach who we want. Once it's in the US, it's more complex. In my view it's a lot of using communities, a lot of using influencers. I believe we're still testing it. That's what costs less money, I think. Right. Both, and also GEO, which for me is already an integral part of each of our products, it has to be.

Eyal David: [47:45] Looking for connections in these areas? I'd be happy to meet whoever wants to connect. Yes, so whoever writes to Nofar, if you come from these worlds, you'll be welcomed warmly, I think. Gorgeous. So great that you came. Thank you so much, I had fun. I had fun too. Alright, bye bye, have a great day.