Transcript: Why You? How to Build a Story, Momentum and an Edge | Adi Levanon (Selah Ventures)

Opening and meeting Adi Levanon

Eyal David: [00:00] We waited, wars, stuff going on, but here we are. And we started talking, in the prep call we did, which was also a lot of fun, we started talking about what's happened in the last two or three months since we spoke, right? Yes. So kind of... only two months? Wow. No, I think it's a bit more, right, I'm just in denial, but tell us for a second before that, just say a bit about yourself so we get to know you, I know you can say a lot, but tell us a bit about yourself and what's happened with you in the last few months. So thanks again, great to be here.

Adi Levanon: [00:33] Adi Levanon, I'm the founder and sole general partner of Selah Ventures, a fund I founded in 2023, already running three-plus years, already 13 investments. Pre-seed, seed, I try to write the first check into companies that can be defined as fintech companies, and we'll talk a bit more about how that will evolve over time. And Israelis and Americans targeting the US market. I'm American myself originally, I immigrated at 12, I've been in Israel many years, a mom, living in Tel Aviv, that's it. So what's changed in the market since we spoke back then? I don't think it's something that happened specifically in the last two months, I think simply, like, we said two months, it's not two months, it's half a year. No, but in the end we didn't record in the end. I think you can say that from when I founded the fund until today, a lot of things have changed. First of all, locally we're in a completely different situation. Also, as you said, really difficult security events that really affected startups, employees, reserve duty and so on, obviously very relevant. We're now in a situation where globally we're at zero interest, but in Israel we're in a situation, also because of the wars and other more geopolitical things and, let's say, not micro, macro. We're already in a world of a problem, dollar versus shekel, is the dollar very, very strong or weak? With the heart. The dollar is weak. The dollar is weak, the shekel is high, sorry, right. And basically we're in a situation that strongly affects both tech and funds. We're in a world where obviously all the gen AI worlds have become more sophisticated, I don't need to repeat what many have surely said here on the podcast or on many other podcasts, but it also has a big effect. I mean, on one hand, the money we have for companies, I mean, the money I put into companies today, in quotes, not in quotes, but it's a hard sentence to say, is worth less, but it's true, plus much higher costs and expenses on the AI world, which you can't build without today. There's a very, very big significance, I think that's a bit where you're heading, I think, from the conversation we had, that there's really a fundamental difference today in fundraising and in general in the discourse between companies that are really based on, not just based on, but truly AI-first, with AI at their core, AI infra at their core, and all the other industries, even in terms of cyber, by the way, and I think. Tell me, is there a lot more noise in customers' ears now?

What's changed in the market since Selah Ventures launched

Eyal David: [03:16] What do you mean? Many more products? Many more people reaching out to them to market products? What a good question.

Adi Levanon: [03:23] Look, because I do things in fintech, which is really everything related to financial services, banking, insurance, but also consumer and in general, any company that touches money somehow, the customer is very specific. It's a very regulated customer, very standards-compliant, usually very heavy, or users for whom it's very important that there's trust at a very high level, I mean, very, very high trust, risk management at the highest level. So sorry, I don't know if I know how to answer that question, I think, but as an investor I can say that I see a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of things, a lot of similar products, a lot of solutions out there trying to solve some tiny little thing for me, or some, like, what's our gap, that's just... another feature, wait, now. In the past we really saw things out there that just open up some feature for you, and today it's something else, it's like companies that can run and move fast, but there are another twenty like them. Again, it's not new, but AI seems to me to simply accelerate it and allow it to happen at a much higher pace than ever. That I already see, it kind of surprises me that founders sit in front of me and don't do their homework. If it meets you like that, then probably... the customers, I assume. And then really the big question: why your company compared to another company? What do you bring me compared to someone else? And I've talked about this, for those who follow me, in other podcasts and panels I was on, that I think what's really most important these days because of AI is to come with a really personal story, different as a founder, of the company too, like, really, marketing today is so fundamental, but more than that, like, why does fintech excite me so much, and financial services? Because the people I invest in come from this world. I've been saying it for three years, I'm a broken record, sorry. Again, whoever has heard me say it, and it's really true. And that's fine, because in cyber it's like the default, it's like, duh, obviously, the person worked in 81, 8200, whatever, now he's going to found a company in the space. People don't understand that, like, financial services or fintech is exactly the same thing. Today, for example, I spoke with someone who was very proud that he'd worked in banking. He worked at some Israeli bank, at a bank like that, in a senior role, and I listen, and I listen, and it doesn't excite me. Because he doesn't understand anything about fintech. The fact that you worked at a bank doesn't mean you know the technologies, he also doesn't know American banks. That doesn't interest me. But today I meet, guys, just remember this sentence, that whoever is building already has the go-to-market. I mean, not only knows how to market, he probably already has the connections to get where he needs to get, and then probably, probably, hopefully, will know how to close that gap of, like, why you compared to someone else? We've known each other a long time, we worked together.

Why founders today need a sharp personal story

Eyal David: [06:09] And maybe what I came to say, if he had the little black book, then it's like. Yes. Exactly. So you talked about, you talked about the story, and basically getting to, and you talked about having to come from within the thing, and it reminded me of our conversation about your path, how did you even get to fintech?

Adi Levanon: [06:27] It's a fascinating story. You said you were in Israel, went to the US and came back. Right. Tell us about that a bit. Yes. Like, actually what's interesting, what we talked about, is that, like, we met in the period when I moved to New York, and I was actually in a different field, not many people know that, right? Not because I'm ashamed of it, it's just not relevant to my path anymore. But anyway, yes, when I moved to New York, it was really a dream of many, many years. Something really since I was a kid. I knew I wanted to live there, and before I moved, I made sure I already had job interviews lined up in advance, which is something I'm very proud of. Like, I really advise people to do that too. Like, I really came and said, I thought I didn't want to work in funds. I mean, I want to do business development, I want to do biz dev, I want to be an operator, that's my world. I'd been an operator for almost three years before that at Conduit, though on the legal side, and I managed a compliance team, but I said, that's what I want to do, I don't know why. And I really arranged job interviews in advance, and I got hired to work at an Israeli company, but with offices there. And simply, really, I wasn't that good at it. Like, I also think the environment there wasn't exactly supportive, and we can talk about that in another conversation, but I don't know, there wasn't, in my opinion, a very supportive environment there. But I also didn't understand what it means to work in America, and I also didn't understand, as an American, but I'd never really worked in any American business before, I grew up in Israel from age 12. And it was really interesting, because in the end, how did I get to fintech? Because I understood, after I basically didn't succeed at that company, and didn't succeed in that world, I said, wait, what am I actually best at? What's fun for me? What excites me most? I really loved working in funds, it suited me very well. And when I moved to New York, I also knew that if I re-entered the investment world, I wanted to build expertise. I literally wrote it on a piece of paper. What, tell us about that a bit, what do you mean? I simply knew I didn't want to be a generalist. I really don't quite understand where that came from. I simply understood I didn't want to be someone who, like, knows a little about all kinds of things. I really wanted to be, to specialize. I wanted to be an expert in something. And I remember writing it on a piece of paper, that I'm moving to New York, that this is something I want to do. And I knew I either wanted to get into the cyber world, because, I don't know, I have a background, like, also as an Israeli obviously, but I also studied computer science as a kid, and physics and electronics, and I managed developers and engineers. I said, like, I'll understand it, I'll manage, like. And all the huge companies are in New York. I said, either that or finance, because Wall Street is there, I studied finance, I'll go for it. And also at the fund I worked at before, we invested in a company called Zooz, which was sold to PayU, and I looked at companies in the blockchain space, back then we only called it Bitcoin, we only talked Bitcoin. And then simply, I don't know, it was like, I had an understanding that these are the directions I'm going in. It took me a very long time to find a job in New York. After I left that place, they fired me from that place. Really, like I said, I wasn't good. The place wasn't good either, but I wasn't good either. And it took me eight months to find a job. But even then, like, I don't know if it helps anyone looking for a job today, but I came very planned before I flew to New York, and also within New York I set myself a target. I said, if by this date, it was August, it's funny, if by August I don't find a job, then, like, in VC, I let go of this thing, I won't stay, like, all good. Not meaning let go and go back to Israel, but... no, but literally, like, I said, I'm American, I'll manage, I'll do something else. Like, I don't know, I also had a partner then, so I said, like, I don't know, I don't want to go back to Israel, like, we were together, and that's it. Funny to talk about it, I think I've never talked about this until now, amusing. And that's it, and really, in the end I got to meet two guys running a first-time fund in the fintech space, like, the person who connected us said, interested? Let's try. I met them, saw what they do, it was very interesting. Guys who today manage over a billion dollars; back then they were a smaller fund than mine, they were under 10, maybe around 10 million dollars, but with investors... so it was more money, but... yes, huh? Institutional, really cool people invested in them, and it was a crazy leap for me, also because they gave me a chance, because I didn't come from the fintech world, I didn't come from finance, like, their finance, that Wall Street finance, I studied finance, but it's not the same. And that's it, they gave me a chance, and I saw every fintech company, the biggest ones there are, I met them at the earliest stages. And I always say this, that process was really interesting, because if I hadn't gone through, like, if I hadn't gone through that whole path, I wouldn't have gotten all the dealflow I got, I wouldn't have met all the funds I met throughout all the interviews I did in those eight months.

How Adi got into fintech and investing

Moving to New York and the non-linear path to a fund

Eyal David: [11:19] That was the interesting part I loved from the conversation. And tell me, why do you think they bet on you?

Adi Levanon: [11:26] Who? The two guys who took you. First of all, I think I was probably cheap for them. Could be, like, in terms of, it was cheaper maybe to pay me than some American, just kidding, but maybe. Why did they bet on me? Look, I didn't come with nothing. They did a lot of due diligence on me. I didn't... it's true I didn't come with a fintech background, but they asked a lot of people about me. They asked founders I'd known for many years who founded fintech companies about me, asked former employees who worked with me at Conduit about me. They did the checks, they're not suckers at all, and I also showed them that I understand. Like, I even did an investment memo on one of their companies, which, in hindsight, not in hindsight, a few years later was sold to Plaid, a company I really like, really believe in them, still in touch with the CEO to this day, and I really understood very quickly, like, what they do there. He told me, it's funny, that same GP told me, you explained what the company does better than they explain it. So, I mean, I proved myself, I didn't come from zero, like, I joke and say that I was cheap, maybe I was cheaper than, like, someone who finished an MBA,

Why she got a chance without a classic fintech background

Eyal David: [12:33] but I'm good at what I do. I think it took me time to understand that, but... yes, what a gap, right, between the moment you stopped there,

Adi Levanon: [12:41] at that company, and then you basically progressed to here, and now you tell yourself, I'm good. It took me time to understand it. It's not something that... like, it's... I don't know why we don't... even though you, well, I don't know, 20-year-olds today think they know everything, but back then at 20, no, sorry, what 20? I was already 30, but I don't know, it just takes time, we grew up, I think, with the idea that only results matter, not the journey. And today, I think, we raise our kids differently: enjoy the journey, take from the journey, fall, get up, fall, get up, it's all good. We were just talking about that a second before, right? About what, in what context? The podcast, that maybe it should also be fun. Ah, and it has to be fun. Like, what, aren't you enjoying it now?

Eyal David: [13:25] No, I'm enjoying it, like, it's fun. It's still very hard for me to see, well, I won't get into it, but it's still very hard for me to see the journey and things.

Adi Levanon: [13:33] Why? The result? That's a thing. I, I think I've changed a lot, because, because I, I, someone told me this, someone I really respect, he said, man, I'd never work in VC. Because he sat for a period at one of the funds, let's say the name, and I actually saw him two days ago, he told me, I'll never do it. I asked him, why? Listen, man, the feedback loop, you have no feedback, until you understand you're good it takes forever, and this and that, and like, he gave a few reasons. And then I really realized how much I've changed, because when I was younger, and most of us are like that, give me some likes, tell me how loved I am, update me, like, whether I'm good or not. And at first when I founded the fund, it was really very hard, I'd send out investor updates, or even just updates for the general public, let's say, for the industry, and I wouldn't get feedback and I'd say, wow, do they like it, not like it, is it good, not good. And what I freed myself from, because first, you understand it doesn't matter, like, that "good" in the end comes much, much later. I need to know I'm good no matter what. I'm good whether the fund succeeds or not. I'm good whether I achieved, it doesn't matter, I'm simply good. And if I don't tell myself that every day anew, I can't, I can't live in peace. And it's not that I'm resting on my laurels, whoever knows me knows, I work very hard, I go all in, I'm active, I'm honest, I do. But I'm also, I'm good because I'm good, because I do. I think, like, I also, I really appreciate someone like Guy Katsovich and many others, like, who are simply consistent, you keep going and you're resilient and you do. I look at what I've done until today, man, I'm good. And also over the years, companies I wanted to invest in became very successful, companies I invested in became very successful, so there were also results and proof,

Eyal David: [15:26] it's not that it came from nowhere. But yes, like... so you opened this for a moment, so maybe close it: what's your advice to the younger generation?

Adi Levanon: [15:35] No, wow, wow, I have a lot to say to the younger generation. I think, I'm very surprised by what... I really don't know where it comes from. I don't know where the mistake was made. Like, people probably a bit older than us, whose kids are in their twenties, simply live in some imaginary world, where they really treat life as if, like, everything is owed to them. Now, it sounds really old of me to say such a thing, because, like, come on, enjoy, have fun, all good. I also have friends, like, very young ones, I'm young in character, in spirit, like, I don't know, I get along with people in their 20s too, but I realize they don't understand the world. Also now I had, like, I take an intern from Reichman. I took one last year and also this year, and about 13 came to interview. I don't want to say anything about anyone, they're all really nice people, I had very good conversations with them, but some of them simply approached the conversation with me in a way I would never have. And again, intelligent people wrote to me, like, they write very nice emails, but if you use ChatGPT or Claude, it's obvious, okay? I, like, come on, you can see it. But the discourse, I would never approach a situation without, I don't know if it's respect, in the end it's a job interview. Forget that in the end it's an internship, it's an interview with someone who works at a fund. I won't forget that I met Avi Zeevi or Shlomo Dovrat, veterans of the fund world; do you think I'd come in like, hey, what's up? Listen, I'm, like, I don't want to, again, I'm exaggerating a bit, but it was really unprofessional and not serious. And also that expectation of, I don't know how to explain, like, negotiating with themselves. I don't know how to explain it. What do you mean negotiating with themselves? You tell me, okay? You're in your 20s after a degree, you come to a job interview, will you come and tell them up front what you expect, or will you wait and first say what's expected of you? Maybe I should've done it the other way around now that you say it. Ah, no, but I... you can't, sorry. There's something in the industry, you pay your dues, okay? We all need to, I don't think you necessarily need to work hard, you don't need to be... You're talking about a first job, I get it. Yes, yes. In the end, especially in today's field, there are, like, really, there are people who, like, I spoke in front of a group of women who want to learn about tech and funds, and two of them approached me afterwards: listen, can I work for you, like, for free, I'm a student, I want to work... I'm not into myself in that context, and I think the younger generation today is in trouble. Because of AI, because of what's happening here, it's not easy being a junior. I'm not saying do anything, not saying you should be stepped on or exploited, God forbid.

Adi on the younger generation and unrealistic expectations

Eyal David: [18:30] It's cool and it's great to show boldness and even a bit of chutzpah, but wait a second, I never, and maybe I did it wrong, maybe like you say, maybe we did it right, but really, you think about it as a real cry of the world. At the first job, you come and... I don't even have to imagine a situation where I was at Conduit, hear me? Where you worked, the first company in Israel to reach a billion-dollar valuation. Listen? I really want the contract to give me 1, 2, 3, 4, not to restrict me on 5, 6, 7, and to pay me, what? Yes, it wouldn't have worked, certainly not back then. They'd have said bye bye, bye bye. So actually let's jump for a second: what's the name of the fund you started working at in the US back then? Fintech Collective. Okay, right. When you got to them, you mentioned chutzpah, so what, how did you come in with that?

Adi Levanon: [19:10] How did you use it? Ah, wow. They actually really loved that about me, and to this day they love it about me, I have to say. Directness, sense of humor. I showed them I know how to get things they didn't believe I'd be able to get. That only Israelis know how to get, I don't know. In the US people are really shy and so on, and I just went and did it. They also saw, I don't know, that someone Jewish they know, or something, so my connection with a person was more buddy-buddy. So they really loved it. They're, you know, one British, one American. They're good people, really, amazing operators, good investors too. They really loved it. Also my humanity, the directness that in Americans' eyes can be interpreted as chutzpah. And listen, I brought, maybe they don't like me saying this, but during the period I worked there I brought in 40% of the dealflow. Yes, we'll talk about it, I heard, but we're talking about just before you started working there. Ah. So that's actually interesting. I'm not sure I had chutzpah before. Exactly. I think what they liked about me before was that all the feedback about me was very good. Everyone told them, Adi is someone who, like, give her something and she runs with it on her own, you don't need to watch her, she runs, she's self-taught, she does, she's sharp, she works hard, people love her. Um... like, working with me, and I think that... like I said, I showed them, like, that I'm good, not I ask ChatGPT, I couldn't make it up. Like, I simply showed them all these things, um... and over time, once I softened a bit, they also saw the transition. That today it's the opposite, I see. What?

Eyal David: [20:51] That today you... I see that you already come across much more confident, much more... like, I didn't know you well enough then, but... You know, it's many, many years, you're talking about 12 years here. I'm sure, but if I connect this for a second to what we said about young people and so on, yes. How would you combine who you really are with, like you said, coming in and, like, I present myself... you cared a lot about how you present yourself, right? Of course. I,

Adi Levanon: [21:18] look, I learned from Americans how to sell themselves. I won't forget that day, maybe I did say this on some podcast, I don't remember, but I won't forget the day, because every time there was a meeting, what do they do? They introduce themselves. So he introduced himself and he introduced himself, and there were also interns, say, from Columbia, who worked with the fund, and the way they introduced themselves, I was in shock. You're a student, you're nobody, like, and the way they talked, and I did my internship at this or this or not I did this, and they really, they really sell themselves in a truly amazing way. And I won't forget it, I came home, looked at my resume and said, I have to change my story. And I came the next day or sometime, during the day, and literally wrote down the points of what makes me a star. And I remember, I won't forget their faces that day when I introduced myself, I said, I'm like this and I'm that, and I worked at Israel's first billion dollar sales company and I was a lawyer and I did this and I did that, and I remember them looking like this, and then doing this, looking at the founder, like they were in shock at the switch I made, because at first I was really shy and didn't know how to sell myself. And I think if I need to advise the new generation, maybe it's, like, you don't need to come to a meeting and say, I only worked at a restaurant, I have nothing else to show you, because I've heard that too. Or I know I don't come from the field, but I'm hungry to do this and that. I wouldn't come to that meeting; I think you really need to sit with yourself and understand, like, "why you" is something you need to work on, and bring it anew every time to the meeting and to the event in front of you.

How Americans taught her to sell herself

Eyal David: [22:59] In the relevant context. Exactly, yes. So, like, if I interrupt for a second, yes, I know you're good at this, at storytelling, but there are, several times you said here that there are cuts in your career that you made, you went to a notebook or whatever it was, and basically wrote yourself a thing for a second,

Adi Levanon: [23:13] and set out with it. So, like, also bad. I really believe in it in general, like, I'm a manifestor like crazy. Yes? Yes. I understood that about myself over time. What, do you have?

Eyal David: [23:22] Do you have, like, I'll say it hungrily, do you have rituals like that? Like that you do every so often? What does it look like? I'd be [unclear] to it,

Adi Levanon: [23:30] but I really believe that thought creates reality. I think we don't, I've said this to people I've met too, you can't succeed in life without constantly, you know, really, I understand it today, without constantly having an inner dialogue that's positive, empowering, healthy, and we all have negative thoughts. There's nothing to do about it. Some of us more, some less, it comes from home, from childhood, a thousand and one things. But it's work. So I don't have rituals, I don't stand under a full moon burning things, I know there are things like that, right? But I believe in writing down successes too, things I'm proud of, and also dreams, and putting dates and numbers on them, and imagining the bank account. Like, yes, it's not for nothing, like, all of Instagram talks about it, I'm not some woo-woo coconut-head. I really believe, you can believe in God, you can believe in the universe, you can believe in nothing. But... now I understand from yesterday, you heard something spiritual from me.

Eyal David: [24:31] Yes. Tell me, what works best for you of these things you're saying? That's what I'd really recommend. I don't know, it's also very personal, but what would you recommend most?

Adi Levanon: [24:38] I really think, like, meditation, it sounds, again, like a cliché, but meditation with... again, some say that just saying affirmations, saying I am strong, I am healthy, I am this, isn't enough if you don't really believe it deep inside. I believe that fake it till you make it really works. Which is what you said, say, about resilience and basically doing. The consistency. Yes. I also believe, by the way, in momentum. I mean, a small step really toward a big change, but sometimes you need to take a small step,

Eyal David: [25:11] and it's like in physics, a small push and in the end everything runs. Like, it's an initial energy that eventually amplifies. That's it, and another thing, you said setting worse, I need to speak in Hebrew. Sorry, yes. Yes. But you said it, and I also looked, like, I noted it on the side, that every time you talked about it, you also took a bet on what, you took a bet on something big. Always. I try, again, in investments too, for sure. I'm a bit crazy. I think that's why this hat you found for yourself suits you so well.

Momentum, big goals and starting with a small step

Adi Levanon: [25:41] What hat? Investor?

Eyal David: [25:45] A very specific field. Yes. That it's... could be. I picked up on another thing when you told me, you told me yesterday, we talked about Jews and so on, so you basically said, I invest, I hope I'm saying it right, but in the end what I took is, I invest in the areas where money flows. Because I understood that there, there I, it's a much smarter bet. Want to expand on that a bit? I'll tell you what I understood, that...

Adi Levanon: [26:11] and I've already been trying, because since I founded the fund, which is even from 2022, I'm raising the fund, I started in summer '22, that's a long time. And, like, everything's relative with you guys, right? And I understood that the definition of fintech doesn't sit in Israel the way it does abroad and in Europe. People don't really understand what fintech is. Now, I'm not saying it out of disrespect, I think it simply comes from, what you see is what you understand. And in Israel we, sorry, we see very specific companies, and that's the perception that, like, and it's also very convenient to put things inside a box, and, like, you know, to narrow in some sense, especially since cyber is gaining so much momentum. So for many people it's hard to see, say, something like, I don't know, I often don't understand that insurance and insurtech is part of, why is it part of fintech? Because it's financial services technologies, and insurance falls under the definition of financial services. Like, the definition doesn't sit. So I said, okay, when I look at what's happening in the industry today, what's changed in the last three years, what's happening with AI, and what really interests me as Adi Levanon, I understood that in practice, what turns me on is, yes, I understand it's fintech. I think American funds, if they read all the fintech funds, the way they talk, they see fintech like I do, but I think many founders don't say they see it, you only invest in fintech, but what is it, oh, that's fintech too, and that place doesn't sit. And I think you don't need to educate the market, but maybe you need to broaden the definition. So that's why I told you that in the end, what interests me is any technology, product, solution that touches money, touches, could be, makes money, protects money, protects, like, at the level of saving money, like making money, saving money, moving money, securing money, which can also be cyber, and money movement, which is cross-border and trade, it's so broad, but anything that makes money, protects money and moves money, and then obviously it also connects to the world of risk management in the broadest sense of what that means, and then it's also related to fraud and identity and so on. And the last thing that really excites me as a lawyer, and I don't think there are many investors in Israel or in general who are lawyers, who also worked as a compliance person at a huge company, so I'm also very interested in what's called compliance, or governance, compliance, regulation, and then it's even broader. All these things in my eyes really suit me as Adi Levanon, really suit me as Selah Ventures, and really suit the financial world too,

Why fintech is much more than payments and loans

Eyal David: [28:53] and that's why I touch each of them. Okay, in a bit we'll understand why Selah, that's also wonderful. Basically what you're saying, again, is also your risk management, yes, you like it, I hear, but also your risk management: you go for things that won't be shaken tomorrow morning, money will be here, government and... I want... okay, in short, reporting to the government and the government's standards, the word escaped me. Compliance, compliance, yes, ciyut or compliance, if you like.

Adi Levanon: [29:21] I warned you, I warned you to decide. No, all good. But basically these things will be here, I'm going for them, and I also know how to sell them, like, it'll also be easy for me to sell. I think yes, I'm also so, like, again, could be, really, I really believe in my path, but let's see in another five to seven years, but from what I've also seen in the last three years, with all the AI hype, which I think we also talked about before we recorded, AI isn't going, it can't bring in judgment, and so much, an essential part of financial services, of touching money, of understanding who the person moving the money is, of approving that this money is clean and so on, there's judgment there. And those are the things that come from expertise, understanding the system, understanding financial services, understanding this world. I don't care what they'll say, I don't, like, what do you mean I don't care? I don't believe that Claude or, like, Anthropic or OpenAI, they can partner with banks or with FIS, which are, like, very large financial organizations, and, like, provide solutions there, I don't think that, it won't kill fintech,

Why money requires judgment, risk and trust

Eyal David: [30:30] that's what I'm trying to say, everyone's afraid. It's really strange, sorry for interrupting. I just read today that OpenAI is now starting a pilot with Sheba, the hospital, right? No, so you're saying, with money, we still won't let them in, because there's no room for mistakes. No, they're there, that's not true.

Adi Levanon: [30:46] There are already partnerships. I almost wrote something about it, I don't know why I didn't publish it in the end, of course I write things and then don't publish. I need to publish, but OpenAI made a [unclear] partnership with Goldman Sachs, and there's already one with J.P. Morgan, and FIS also works with Anthropic, I'm probably mixing up the exact names, but there are already partnerships. I say, great, nice, cool, I still don't think that, unlike other fields, it'll kill or hurt fintech companies because they, again, like I said at the start of the conversation, whoever builds in fintech and finance comes with a lot, a lot of knowledge, experience and expertise. You can't now come and do some vibe coding with Claude Code on how you're going to underwrite a loan. No, you can't. Even if Claude can read the regulation behind it, there's judgment there, there's risk there and there's trust there,

Eyal David: [31:38] these are essential things in the financial world. No, I'm not arguing, I'm just saying, we as humanity are really funny, because to put it now into surgeries and into those places, fine, let's go in there and actually... that's something else, but.

Adi Levanon: [31:53] And by the way, there too, in the end, you know, they won't make the doctor's judgment. The goal, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, is to provide solutions, give more information, help understand systems better, so a doctor can make a decision. I don't think it'll kick out the doctor.

Eyal David: [32:09] I don't think it'll kick out the doctor, but I actually read that the whole robotics thing is coming in very, very strongly into many types of surgery. Look, because there aren't enough doctors,

Adi Levanon: [32:17] so that's something else, but it's not quite the same in the financial world. I mean, it's also, by the way, because, say, again, I invested in a company that, say, you can say in many ways AI can, not replace, but can greatly help someone, an analyst now checking whether money moving through is clean or not, terror money or not. So, like, simulating an analyst now with those agents. So yes, it's true, there'll be agents doing tons of things in the financial worlds, but I believe there will still be a person there somewhere. In the final mile, somewhere in the loop, there'll be some person. It's not like, it can't, because the regulator won't allow it, not that fast.

Eyal David: [32:57] Also, again, if we're talking about money, there's too much money here on the... there are organizations that are too big. Right. I want to ask you, why do you think, but in Israel people don't understand enough, why do they understand fintech too narrowly?

Adi Levanon: [33:11] Why are the types of companies like that? I've talked about this too, like, I think it's, again, you connect to what you see. There aren't many companies here, there are no companies here that built KYC solutions. Maybe AU10TIX, maybe, but basically I invested in Alloy, an American company, whose whole thing is [unclear] the user, it's a solution [unclear] the user, and they of course expanded into fraud, and identity and other things. They only sell to financial organizations. It's a data company in every sense, which maybe would've wanted to be at cyber multiples, [unclear], at some point, like, jokingly, but in the end they're a fintech company, because they sell only to banks with a solution for the financial world. I simply saw this come into play in a company I invested in too, called Entryo, which really reminds me of Alloy, really reminds me of a few other companies, it even reminds me a bit of Armis; Armis does it in security, and they do it in managing the tech stack for architects. I mean, Adi, how is that related to fintech? Because banks and also insurance companies have no idea how to manage their tech stack, it sounds crazy to us. But that data and their ability to understand what they need, what they don't need, how to use their technologies, while using AI, that's something they're now building, and they sell to the biggest banks in the world. Did they come from day one knowing this was their story? That this was, like, their sweet spot? How did they know? The guys who left? These are guys who worked many years in the financial and banking world, and that's where they discovered the problem, and they loved it. It's a company that's been around a while, they went through iterations, right? But today they're on the wave, they're doing amazing work. And it's also an example of how they're seen in all these mappings, those startup maps, they put them more in data and analytics and so on, they didn't necessarily put them in fintech. So I don't know exactly why, I think it's simply a matter of what you see and what you're used to, that's what you'll focus on. And that's why in Israel people think fintech is payments, they think of loans, they think of banking, maybe capital markets. Again, insurance, I'm constantly asked whether insurance tech counts as fintech, which to me is crazy that I got asked that, but it's fine. Like, in the end it's quite new here in Israel. I saw a few years ago that more fintech companies than cyber were created, founded, more fintech companies than cyber. Never mind that there was one year, or a year and a half, when more money was raised for fintech companies than cyber, but even today there are more Israeli fintech companies that reached a billion-dollar valuation. Fintech than cyber, in the State of Israel. And Viola recently also put out something on it, they also track it and see it and published material on it. It's not only me saying it for almost four years now. So I don't know exactly why, the cyber story simply works great. It fits Israel, it's Startup Nation, it's from the army, you get out and found cyber companies and protect them. That moved forward for a few years following the half year and more. Right. And fintech, like, you say, Israel, what's that got to do with it? But it fits so well, we understand data and cryptography and fraud so well, and we have all the capabilities, from the army too, but also around it. Like, we've already built products and we'll build many more products that really fit the world of financial services and everything related to touching money. Tell me, so a question,

Why Israel misses the size of the fintech opportunity

Eyal David: [36:29] you see tons of companies, companies, I assume. I try. Okay, that's the job. What's basically the thing you can most, like, most say, like, needs fixing, that's lacking? Probably we'll go to storytelling and the story, okay? With founders.

Adi Levanon: [36:45] With the founders you're meeting now, recently, in the last half year. So I won't say only storytelling, it's what I said earlier, I don't think they do their homework. It sounds really funny, but like, I can't understand, it kind of came up a few times in our conversation, like, people don't come prepared. They don't treat, like, they almost don't treat with respect what you do and who you are. If you already decided you're founding a startup, why don't you check what else is out there? How are you really different from what already exists? Why don't you sit with funds, sorry, just to hear from them, what have you seen that's similar to what I'm doing? Where am I missing? Where can you close the loop for me? Especially funds... like, not every meeting with an investor has to be only about raising money. I also wrote something about this that Geektime published, like, it's fine to reach out just to hear what's going on, to get feedback. Not every VC is necessarily smarter than you, but we see so many things. Also today there's so much data online, what... it's strange. It's important to add that they'll gladly meet, at least at those levels, because that's a job. That's a job, exactly. Principals and associates for sure, partners I don't know, but the juniors there for sure. And it's also great for building relationships. Sure, totally. So that's one, I think people don't do enough homework, and then yes, it comes back to, like, understanding exactly why you, the why you, it's like, what is it, it's the thing today more than ever. And I think people don't

What founders lack today: not just storytelling, but homework

Eyal David: [38:19] think enough about the next rounds. Yes, that's very interesting. Yes. Can you expand on that a bit?

Adi Levanon: [38:25] But it's not something new. Like, I think I often get to meet people who don't think about the next rounds. I've talked many times about how important it is to build a target list, like, really, really take the time to invest, to build the... who to approach? Who's most relevant and so on? Among the funds in the areas that you, like, what in fintech, say, it touches, whether it's this fund or that fund. And today I think more than that, people don't think, like, about how do I get to the round, how do I get there, who'll put money into me in the next rounds? And if I'm a cool AI company today, then they'll probably already approach me and talk to me, that happened with my portfolio company, and like, they're already talking to them about the next round. And who'll come after that? And who'll come after that? Like, really looking ahead and building a plan. The world can change another billion times, but if you don't understand what the big story in front of you is, for which you literally left everything you have, you're getting on a tough, exhausting rollercoaster here, come with a plan like that, even in your head, but better to write it down. And I don't know, like, it's really, really, really, really important in my eyes, also to develop the relationships. What did I want to ask? I don't want to ask, go on. To understand how, to simply understand again, what's the go-to-market? The go-to-market will bring the sales, which will bring the valuation, which will bring the investors, like, it all goes together. And good CEOs understand this, because a good CEO is a CEO who also knows how to raise money. Does the story, does a bit of the schmoozing, they can be weird, they can be aggressive, they can be whatever and all kinds of other personality things, but they know how to raise money. And they understand that the most important thing is customers, the most important thing is customers, the answer is always with them, but by talking to customers and bringing, you also need to bring the investors, the interest from them too. It goes together. That seems really, really, really important to me today.

Why go-to-market and customers are the heart of the story

Eyal David: [40:23] I also think we skipped over this really fast, but you're also very, very focused on saving money, money movement, making money. Sure. In the AI world that's everything now. Right, really. Efficiency, that's what you can get AI for. Right. The second thing, yes, you kept saying, we came back to it, we came back, but yes, Adi, that's what makes you unique, right? You know really well how to say, like, probably over time you learned your uniqueness, right? Yours, but that's basically also, everything we're saying here is also true for a startup. And true for a startup, like, to identify my uniqueness, and also really that big goal over time. Yes. That's the plan, basically. Yes. I think Israelis, like,

Adi Levanon: [41:03] like I said, I learned from the Americans how to build a story and how to sell myself, and you know, part of... people asked me how I raised a fund. In the end I bring myself, the truth, the numbers, but in the end it's a story I believe in, and then it has to convince the people in front of you. And I think with Israelis there's this thing of be modest, don't show off, don't do that, and in the startup world it's a bit different, because we do need to sell ourselves, but for Israelis it's very uncomfortable. There's something uncomfortable about it. That's it, for American Jews, we talked about chutzpah, it's much easier. They don't have chutzpah, but they know how to sell themselves, and above all they know how to sell. They really know how to sell. So that's basically the gap you bridged, in your view? I think so, I learned nuances. I know how to speak Israeli properly, you just did the neighborhood thing, whatever, properly, I think, and I also really understand today how to talk to Americans. Like, I worked, after Fintech Collective, I worked with two partners, one of whom was the CFO of BlackRock and took them public. It's the biggest asset management company in the world, I think, with 6 trillion dollars under management today; he and Larry Fink worked together, he took them public. And Paul and I talked recently, and we keep talking, and he still tells me, wow, I learn from you to this day. That's crazy, this person, an amazing man. You're crazy for keeping in touch with all these people. A must.

How Israelis need to learn to build and tell a story

Eyal David: [42:25] How do you do it? Because in the end, I look, I care. You're a one-woman show, I look at it from the side, and you need, wow, you do a lot of things. Pyramid. And you maintain, and you're also basically running a business here, right?

Adi Levanon: [42:41] And you do the marketing, in the end it's marketing, right? Just today I was trying to fix my website. That's it, I didn't want to say anything. Because it sat down, no, something there isn't working, yes, I know, sorry, whoever doesn't go out won't get in. But you can click on the... is it all okay? I'm trying.

Eyal David: [42:55] But... yes, that's me. For better and worse, maybe I don't create enough, like, atmosphere. But how do you manage to keep up all this networking within this whole thing?

Adi Levanon: [43:03] I see that really properly, how? That's it, if it's not natural, I don't think it's the most important thing, by the way. Like, to me it's important, but if you look at the most talented people in the world, I'm not sure they're so... I don't know. You could say about, I don't know, who... Warren Buffett isn't an example. Right, he's also a very nice man. And very friendly, like, it seems, very social, but like, well, actually it's very, it really varies. It depends on the generation and on what you do, but like, because you could say, Elon Musk, I don't think he's networking with [unclear]. No, but if you talked for a second about go-to-market,

Eyal David: [43:38] then both for a startup and for a private person, networking is probably everything, and even more so now in the AI world. I don't even call it networking.

Adi Levanon: [43:45] Exactly. For me it's, it's... socializing? Because there's something about it that for Israelis especially, I think it sounds like, ugh, it's really gross and forced. It doesn't feel forced to me. Look, I think being in the tech world, in this world of funds and so on, and being an introvert, a person who gets energy from being alone, is really very hard. Do I know partners who are introverts and still do amazing work? Sure. And they're still sociable people and great and all good, but there's, you have to, you really need to love people to do this job. And for me, I simply understand that I learn a lot from other people, smarter than me, better than me. Paul, for example, is a much smarter man, obviously, with those, like, what a person. And the people I worked with at Fintech Collective, and I also worked in Israel at Print Capital, Sergey, he has experience I don't have. We're different people, there are things he can learn from me, and things I learned from him too. And I think, like, in the end, you know, people ask me, like, how do you do it? How do you make decisions alone? Isn't it hard for you? Like, it's always you with yourself. I really love being in a position today where I make decisions alone, but I don't have to make decisions alone. I'm for listening, consulting. I also consulted with Paul on a few things, like, I consulted with him about a specific company, and really enjoyed hearing his opinion. And I constantly, and I also have my LPs, people who invested in me, smart people with backgrounds in fintech, whom I can consult with, reach out to. It helps a lot. I think simply, if you don't maintain relationships, I think it's really hard to move forward. Like, in the end, what do American men do? In Israel we have guys we were in the army with, who were with you maybe, who love, I don't know, Maccabi or Hapoel, like you, and that helps. Okay? And they go out for drinks, and go out for this, and... in the US it's football and sports, and MBA, and in the end, in the end, in the end you need to work. You need to work at it, and it sounds bad to say work at it. I really enjoy it. I enjoy it, and I love that I can see the guys I worked with at Fintech Collective once in a billion years at some conference, and it's still hugs and buddy-buddy, like, I saw them yesterday. First, that's me, but I think that's also the dynamic that's important for me to keep. And I think really, that's also advice I'd give, like, always make sure, even when you leave a place, it's never pleasant, it's never good, but always keep, like, a good connection. Work at... again, "work at it" sounds bad in Hebrew, but "invest in it" sounds better, more positive maybe? I think it's part of the job. No, no, no, not work. But it's also part of the... I want to say it's part of personal, human and business development. I really think you can't, like, I just told you, 15,000 people I think follow me, plus, on LinkedIn already. Why? Because probably something in the dynamic and what I convey, share, interests them. Why am I here on the podcast? Something I said, conveyed, interested you, and you think it'll contribute to your listeners. It's always very important to me to bring value. I believe everyone I've met along the way brings me value. It's not something egotistical or like, what do you do for me, what do I do for you. Not in that sense, but in the end we, oops, I moved it, sorry. Okay, I sound spiritual again, but in the end it really is energy and knowledge. I get knowledge from you, you bring me knowledge from your experience, from your background. Like, that's how it is. So how fun is that. How fun that you can meet amazing people and work with them and learn from them,

Making decisions alone without being alone

Why relationships are part of the job

Eyal David: [47:35] and I'd never underestimate that. Really. Great advice. I'll also say that what I loved, first, I remembered you from before, but what I really loved is the practical approach. I think that's something you really convey, and with a point. So I really loved that. So what I think is this. First of all, it was a very interesting conversation in my eyes. Believe me. I learned a lot, even if we talked about energy and learning, and also the internet energy. Tell the people who want to reach out to you,

Adi Levanon: [48:06] what interests you most right now? So I say this really everywhere. There's no, no... so I'll repeat and say: please come after you've done your homework, okay? Why don't you create content about it, by the way? About what? Everyone always wants me to create content. You said you want to create content. I want to, and I really want to. I want to write, I love writing, I think I write quite interestingly, I don't get to it. Say you had time. I thought about doing a podcast, I've thought about it. Like, I'm dying to do more content, but in the end I also need to invest, and I need to pick companies, and I also need to... help the portfolio. But if people came to you more prepared, because they went through some precise content you wrote... What do you mean by content? Like, telling them

Eyal David: [48:47] how to approach me? No. What do you mean by that? Okay. There are the basics you expect to get from a company that comes to you,

Adi Levanon: [48:54] after it's done at least something. I'll tell you what's important for me to see. One, obviously most people who approach me probably come from the fintech worlds. Not all, but most are already there. And then, sorry, you shouldn't drink soda, sorry. If they already come from these worlds and come from fintech, then they probably want to work in a field already familiar to them, known to them, they've been there, they know the problem, it's not new to them, and then the conversation is accordingly. Not only do they understand the field, they've probably also already done some go-to-market, I mean, they already have design partners. They're already talking to the customer. Sorry. They've already gotten, they've already gotten feedback. So once they've already gotten feedback, the conversation is different. I also know how I can help. Because if they say, say, I talked to company one, two, three, I say, okay, actually I know from my Rolodex that I know people at company 4-5-6, which really resembles 1-2-3, I can connect you. I can make an intro. And then I also do two things: I do due diligence for myself that way, and I also help them. So, like, I don't know if that exactly answers the question, I don't have a specific field that excites me more or less. I think it's more that I'd like founders to come after they've already done some homework. I'll happily sit with them, like, I did yesterday or the day before, I'm already organizing these, already 5 meetups like this, an Israeli fintech happy hour. I started it, I think I'm the first and only one who started this in Israel, and I brought other funds with me, fintech, but not only. And the last one I did was with Deloitte, and it was excellent, and the goal is that people thinking of starting something new, interested in something new, or in co-founders, or who already have an idea and want to raise money only at early stage, come and talk. And lots of people approached me afterwards: Adi, let's sit. I don't know what's going on with me, but I have an idea, I want to start something. I want to consult with you, what do you think about field X, field Y? I love being there, I want to be there, and these are people who usually already know the field, live the field, worked in some fintech or in several fintech companies, and then the conversation is different, and I also have ways to help them. To come to me, like, I don't know. So we heard that throughout the whole conversation too. What? Do your homework, in this case go talk to your market, go get. But isn't it like that in every field? In cyber, in medicine, in everything. Like, it seems strange to me that I ask, like, they talk to me, and I'm like, but don't you know company so-and-so and company so-and-so, so how is it different? No, we're different because our technology blah blah blah, whatever. So that's not enough. Go ask the market how you're better. Another thing I notice, that I really think is critical, that I notice, and it's a big problem, is that people don't understand the value to the organization enough. Now, it sounds like, duh, you build an MVP, but wait, if you're already talking to design partners, it's so important to do a customer survey. Just, you don't come and try to sell, you try to listen. What's your pain? What isn't working for you today? How do you take care of it today? What would you want to be different? And that way, along the way, you understand how your product should look, and tell me, if you had a solution now, like you said, that has 1, 2, 3, how much would you pay for it? And how much does what you do today cost you? Oh, you have 5 software tools? Wow, how much does that cost you, and where's the budget from, and who pays? Because really, I think, like, I keep saying this about job interviews too, but also in today's tech world, selling a product and getting a customer, you're priced according to your importance to the organization. You're priced according to what you solve for the organization, and you as an employee are priced according to the value you bring to the company. Period. If someone gives you a piece of paper to hire you and offers you something below market, that's how they see you.

How Adi helps founders through intros and due diligence

Why real customer discovery matters before selling

Eyal David: [52:49] Period. Wow, you wrapped it up, how beautiful. But it's true. Really. And it combines listening, but also learning, but listening, right? Yes, like, obviously, yes, but being in a position where you,

Adi Levanon: [53:03] it's, it's, you know what? It's listening, yes, and within, why do you say listening? It's nice that you say it because it requires patience. Because I, not just push, like, wait, a second, listen.

Eyal David: [53:12] I'm learning about another field now. Okay. What field? Ongoing. We talked, energy. Okay. Ah, right, right, right. We won't get into where, but... no, but energy, like, you said from waste, no? No, no, I didn't say anything. No, who told me something? Sorry, that was a different conversation. Wow. No, energy of what? Solar? Wait, renewable. Cool. Actually toward storage. But often, even if I know the answer, I shut up, because... Exactly. Every other person will tell me something, and I want, like, to compare things, and I write them down, and develop them later. So you ask me how I keep up connections and why? Exactly, like, this, look how fun.

Adi Levanon: [53:49] Listening to people and getting information from them, and yes, like, it's important.

Eyal David: [53:56] Yes, and it's important, important, I think, to train that muscle. Right. It's really hard, especially for us as Israelis.

Adi Levanon: [54:03] Yes, because we think we know everything. I don't think I know everything. On the contrary, I think I knew, I feel I know enough to do what I do, but the founders know much better than me, I'm constantly reading, constantly asking questions, I'm not ashamed to say I don't understand, explain to me again what you mean, what it means.

Eyal David: [54:26] That's also one of the muscles you need to train: not being afraid to say, honestly, I have no idea. Don't know, not sure. It doesn't mean... okay, wait, yours is age, I agree with you.

Adi Levanon: [54:34] Maybe. It's something I really try to pass on to my daughter too, like, it doesn't have to be perfect. It's all fine, it's okay to make mistakes. But yes, it's something you have to go through with age and get that resilience and train that muscle, that it's fine not to know. Funny, I work on this a lot with my daughter when we work with AI. How old is she?

Eyal David: [54:54] She's eight. Oh wow, well done. It's okay to make mistakes, and like... what do you mean okay? It's important. It's also, there's no mistake. But it's not your mistake, it's its mistake, or mine. Ah, yes? The system's, like? Yes, it's hard for her.

It's okay to be wrong, and how to learn from it

Adi Levanon: [55:06] Like, we learn with it that it's okay to make mistakes, and we understand, and we'll be more precise, and that's the only way to move forward. I think the word mistake and the word failure don't exist at all. Nothing is a mistake and nothing is a failure. Everything is learning along the way, what we talked about. In the end it's not only about the result. The journey is important. Every challenge is there to learn from. So everything is learning, and everything bumps you to the next stage. I also believe everything happens for a reason, but that can be put aside, not everyone necessarily believes that, but I don't know, I believe it. There's no mistake, what's a mistake?

Eyal David: [55:41] Still, I have to ask you before we wrap up, what do you listen to? What do you recommend? What are those things you said you listen to? Wow, I won't embarrass myself that much on this podcast, but... From which direction?

Adi Levanon: [55:55] I, my feed is really full of these pep talks. Mark Manson, who wrote The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck. And I also listen to... I follow Oscar Malka, who's Israeli, and I follow Ray Dalio, and I follow, um, Mel Gibson, Mel Gibson? No. Mel Gibson, Mel Robbins, I think, who has a podcast, and of course I also listen to... really a lot of people who... and there's also that young guy who comes up and asks, excuse me, how did you get rich? Hard Knock Life or something like that, a guy who follows rich people and asks them a few questions. I constantly fill my head and my environment with people who are always thinking about how to develop, how to grow, how to flourish, how to take a situation and turn it into something good, how to think positively. And I tell myself these things too, because I, like I said, I, it's so easy for us, especially Israelis, but people in general, with all the difficulties, there are difficulties, there are challenges, it's so easy to say, ugh, life is hard. Especially when you're running alone as a founder, I really understand what you're saying. Yes, but why should I dwell on it, like, I choose to get up, there are hard days. Of course there are hard days. Statistically, you'll also have quite a few hard days a year. But I choose, and work really hard at it, but choose to get up every morning, and I put on songs I love that lift me up, and things that, like, and I dance a lot at home. Dancing is important, I think it brings out lots of positive things. I love dancing in general, and like, anything that lifts the mindset, because it's so easy, and it's not like, it's really easy to talk about it today, because today I raised the fund, but let's see what happens with fund 2, and fund 3, and fund 5, and... who knows? Life is so dynamic. And I know what I want, I know what's good for me, I know what my goals are, and I know today that what I really want, I can achieve. And maybe it sounds arrogant, it's, it's, I think it's, like, I think it's great self-love, and like, it comes from a place of, like, pure confidence in... I don't know, like I said, everything happens for a reason. What you want, you can achieve. There's, there's a way, but what you want you can achieve, if you know what you want. Yes, Arnold Schwarzenegger built three careers out of that, right, so like, that's a response. I think most people simply don't know what they want, so they don't reach the goal, really. I think that's a lot of it, and I'm not the first to say it. Even Oprah Winfrey says it, most people don't know what they want. So how do you reach a goal, and how do you manage to keep optimistic thinking, and resilience, and get up every morning and do the same thing over and over and over, you only manage to do it when you have a purpose and a goal, and then you work on how to enjoy that journey. So lock in on your goal. Yes, I think most Israelis know what they want, and most founders know what they want. Not all of them also thought about the... you don't always need to know how to get there, but I think we, you're building a company, you need to have steps toward it. Life will take you in all kinds of directions, but working with a plan is really important. Adi, it was amazing.

What Adi feeds her mind to stay positive

Wrap-up: know what you want, even before you know how to get there

Eyal David: [59:33] Thank you very much, it was fun. We'll leave your LinkedIn, if people want to reach out. With pleasure, and lots of love, yes, yes. Great. Alright, thank you very much. Thanks. Bye bye.